[Announcer] (0:01 - 0:18) Think about the Bible like you never have before. You're listening to Christian Questions. Access more audio, videos, and Bible study resources at ChristianQuestions.com.
Our topic is: "Do I Ever Mix My Christianity with Paganism?" Here's Rick, Jonathan, and Julie.
[Rick] (0:21 - 0:28) Welcome everyone. I'm Rick, I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over twenty-five years. Julie, a longtime contributor, is also with us. Jonathan, what's the theme Scripture for this episode?
[Jonathan] (0:28 - 0:31) Isaiah 52:11: "Depart, depart, go out from there, touch nothing unclean; Go out of the midst of her, purify yourselves, you who carry the vessels of the LORD."
[Rick] (0:44 - 2:00) One of the foundations of true Christian discipleship is the obvious focus on following in Jesus' footsteps.
Jesus himself told us about leaving the world behind and being willing to live a life of dedication and sacrifice, as he did. One important but sometimes overlooked challenge to this is the practicality of what it means to leave the world behind. This is where an understanding of paganism needs to come into play.
It's important to realize that paganism is not a single, unified religion. Rather, it is a broad umbrella encompassing many different spiritual beliefs and practices, often connected by a reverence for nature and the natural world. What are the differences and what are the similarities between paganism and Christianity?
Are there any aspects of paganism that have become part of my Christian walk? In order to understand and define this, we need to begin by generally defining the very broad topic of paganism. We're going to draw several comments throughout the podcast from "A Paganism Overview (from the website paganclub.com): Exploring Earth-Centered Spirituality." Let's get started with an overview here, Julie.
[Julie] (2:01 - 2:54) Paganism, derived from the Latin word "paganus," meaning "country dweller" or "rustic," was a term in use by early Christians to describe the polytheistic and animistic religions of Europe, the Middle East, and Northern Africa. These traditions were seen as the beliefs of rural or backward peoples as Christianity spread across the Roman Empire and beyond. In reality, however, pagan traditions were the dominant spiritual systems in many societies long before the rise of monotheistic religions like Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
One of the hallmarks of ancient paganism is its polytheistic nature. In other words, the belief in and worship of multiple gods and goddesses. Ancient pagans would look up to deities, of course.
This is because they often linked them to natural elements like the sun, moon, wind, and earth."
[Rick] (2:55 - 3:34) It's obviously a very earth-based scenario of establishing a belief. That's the broad picture of what paganism is. Let's take a look now;
we've got a broad basis, and we'll get into more details as we go. Let's look at the context of our theme Scripture, Jonathan, that you read at the very beginning. This context is that Israel is being released from seventy years of captivity in Babylon, and it was prophesied to happen in Isaiah.
So Isaiah talked about the release before that happened. Here's how Isaiah describes the responsibilities of this newly given freedom which was to come. Isaiah 52:11-12:
[Jonathan] (3:34 - 4:01) "Depart, depart, go out from there, touch nothing unclean; Go out of the midst of her,
purify yourselves, you who carry the vessels of the LORD. But you will not go out in haste, nor will you go as fugitives; For the LORD will go before you, and the God of Israel will be your rear guard."
Isaiah is saying, go back to your land in service and faith to God!
[Rick] (4:01 - 4:37) When he says go back to your land, he's saying, don't touch anything unclean. Purify yourself. Pull yourself away.
Come to Me. It's a very, very dramatic change that he's saying. It's not just relocating, it's reallocating where your heart and mind are.
Now let's think about this. Let's remember that the generation that was taken captive were those who were idolatrous. That's why they were drawn into captivity.
The generation that was to be freed essentially grew up surrounded by idolatry. This is interesting to think about. Julie, let's do a little bit of Bible commentary here.
Let's go to Albert Barnes for some context:
[Julie] (4:38 - 5:19) "Though the captivity was at first attended with every circumstance suited to give pain, and though they were subjected to many privations and sorrows in Babylon, yet...many of them became strongly attached to a residence there, and were strongly indisposed to return. They were there seventy years. Most of those who were made captive would have died before the close of the exile.
Their children, who constituted the generation to whom the command to return would be addressed, would have known the land of their fathers only by report. It was a distant land... They had been born in Babylon.
It was their home... many, it is probable, had lands and friends and property in Babylon."
[Jonathan] (5:20 - 5:29) They weren't only leaving behind a place, they were leaving behind a way of thinking that had become normal to them. It's what they knew.
[Rick] (5:29 - 6:58) This is important because you recognize how that seventy years is a long time and you are accustomed to something. God is now saying, you're My chosen people; what you have become accustomed to, you have to leave behind. You have to leave it behind. With ancient Israel, we see that process of leaving behind things that are outside of the narrowness of what God gives us to believe in.
In the New Testament, it's the same principle. You've got to leave those things behind. In 2 Corinthians, the Apostle Paul takes this ancient event that we talked about in Isaiah 52:11-12 and he brings its lessons and principles into play in our current everyday Christian lives.
Before reading his message, again, we need to get in the background. Isaiah 52:11-12, the Apostle Paul quotes. We're going to get to that as we go through our podcast here, but let's lay the groundwork for who he's talking to and essentially why he would quote this.
To understand 2 Corinthians you have to go to 1 Corinthians. 1 Corinthians was written to a church whose priorities were confused, okay? They closed their eyes to dark moral sin while engaging in a sectarian brand of Christianity that was not disciplined.
They were stuck in spiritual pride, the misuse of gifts and neglect of the most important things. The Apostle Paul wrote to them very firmly to straighten them out.
[Jonathan] (6:59 - 7:09) Corinth was a major Greek city in the Roman Empire. Christians there were living in a culture saturated with pagan religion. They were used to it.
It was "normal."
[Rick] (7:10 - 8:15) Just like Israel in the Old Testament, they were used to their surroundings. It was normal, and for many of them, that's what they grew up with. You can see why the Apostle Paul draws on the Old Testament to make the point.
Now we go to 2 Corinthians. 2 Corinthians was later written to them after they had heeded Paul's warnings. They got that letter and
it's like, "Wow, we're kind of messed up. Let's put things together." They're heeding Paul's warnings, and now they're beginning to grow in Christ.
He loved them unconditionally and he was encouraging them to continue putting away their humanness. This is important. This is what 2 Corinthians is about.
He gave them general admonitions that would clearly apply to the context of their lives and their deeply pagan background. They've got this background, and 1 Corinthians was to say, "Understand the big picture!" 2 Corinthians is to say, "Good, good, keep coming, keep coming, keep walking away, keep walking away!" We're going to drop in on 2 Corinthians, several verses, and we're going to take them apart.
Julie, let's start with the first part of 2 Corinthians 6:14:
[Julie] (8:16 - 8:33) "Do not be bound together with unbelievers..." Let's look at that "do not be bound together" first. That Greek word here refers to being yoked together, like animals joined in the same harness.
He's warning against being connected to someone who's moving in a different spiritual direction.
[Rick] (8:33 - 9:08) That's important, being yoked together like animals in a harness. That means they're tied together to do a specific job, and you really don't have a choice. When you're in the yoke you have to do the work, okay?
Root word for that being "bound together," or "to be yoked"--as it says in the King James Version in the New Testament--the root word for that is always tied into a committed relationship, either in a positive or a negative sense. It can be used either way.
"Do not be bound together with unbelievers"-- that's a very negative way. A positive sense-- let's look at Matthew 11:29-30:
[Jonathan] (9:08 - 9:27) "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
We are to be yoked to Christ in a position of submission and discipleship.
[Rick] (9:27 - 9:44) Working with him, following in his footsteps, so that the work of the gospel gets done. That's a good "yokefellow." Be joined with Christ.
Let's look at it in a negative sense now. Let's look at Acts 15:10-11.
[Jonathan] (9:44 - 10:13) Here the Apostle Peter describes the Jewish Law as "a yoke:" "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
The Law was a "yoke," meaning a burden that sinful people were unable to bear because they could not keep it perfectly.
[Rick] (10:13 - 10:49) Right. You have this comparison between both Jewish and Gentile Christians coming together, trying to work out their understanding of what the gospel is. The idea is, don't put this yoke upon them that didn't bring them to God because they couldn't keep the Law.
This is about the "spirit" of Law. This is about following Jesus' footsteps. It's basically saying, be yoked in that way.
It says, "Do not be yoked together" in a negative sense with those things that are not common with Christianity. Then it says, "<Do not be yoked> with unbelievers..." Julie, let's go to that part.
[Julie] (10:49 - 11:03) Well, when Paul says "unbelievers," he's using a Greek word meaning those who do not share faith in Christ. He's warning against binding ourselves into partnerships where our deepest spiritual commitments are fundamentally different.
[Rick] (11:04 - 11:36) Don't be bound together--tied in together--with those who are not of the same belief system. Now look, it doesn't mean you stay out of the world and you don't go to work tomorrow because the Scripture said that. It means don't make spiritual choices that join you with the wrong kind of thinking and the wrong kind of belief system.
Let's scripturally define "unbelievers" because it says don't be yoked together with unbelievers. Two quick examples-- Jonathan, let's go to Matthew 17:17.
[Jonathan] (11:36 - 11:53) The context here is the account of a boy that the disciples were unable to heal. The father then brought him to Jesus. "And Jesus answered and said, You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you?
How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to me."
[Rick] (11:54 - 12:10) "Unbelieving and perverted generation..." Those were Jewish people. He's talking about them as being unbelieving because they're not following the obviousness of Jesus as the Messiah.
That's one example of unbelievers. Another example is in 1 Corinthians 6:5-6:
[Jonathan] (12:11 - 12:24) "I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?"
[Rick] (12:24 - 12:57) That before pagans, that before Gentiles... you have unbelieving Jewish individuals and unbelieving Gentiles. He's saying scripturally and spiritually, make sure that your focus is to be tied together with the appropriate people. Both those who were Jews in name only and those who are simply outside of our Christian faith are all considered unbelievers.
Now, do we look at an unbeliever and say, "They're all bad?" No, they're just unbelievers. God's got salvation planned in a different way at a different time for them.
[Julie] (12:57 - 13:20) Yeah. To sum up, paganism in both ancient Israel and in the early Christian church was something people lived alongside of every day. It was easy to get used to.
It was easy to stop noticing how it could negatively impact their thinking and ultimately their relationship with God. We should be getting the point by now that this is also something we experience in our day. We need to look inward.
[Rick] (13:20 - 13:31) Okay. That's the point. We need to look inward.
"Do not be bound together with unbelievers." Jonathan, "Differentiating Between Christian Beliefs and Pagan Perspectives":
[Jonathan] (13:32 - 13:51) As we have only begun to develop these differences, it is important to acknowledge the differences between the origins of paganism and Christianity. As we will see, a clear adherence to the origins of our beliefs will help us understand the level of our individual fidelity to our faith.
[Rick] (13:52 - 14:08) That's the key that we're looking for: What is my individual fidelity to my faith? To grow in Christ requires a solid foundation to build upon. Defining what we walk towards and walk away from gives us something to stand upon.
[Jonathan] (14:09 - 14:17) As we begin to compare the fundamentals of paganism and Christianity, what impact do the belief origins have?
[Rick] (14:17 - 15:07) The impact of those origins is enormous because these origins of a belief establish the foundation for that belief. As we now begin to dig a bit more deeply into the how and why, we're going to begin to see why the Apostle Paul made such a clear statement about not being bound together with unbelievers. That's the beginning of his statement.
Now he's going to expand on that, but before we go to his expansion, let's expand on our understanding of paganism through this "Paganism Overview: Exploring Earth-Centered Spirituality." Again, we're going through the origins of paganism, just taking pieces to help us put it in perspective, and we're learning it from those who have those beliefs as their own. Julie, let's go back to that.
[Julie] (15:07 - 16:02) Quoting: "...At the core of many ancient pagan traditions was animism— the belief that all elements of the natural world—rivers, trees, mountains, animals—possess a spiritual essence or consciousness. This reverence for nature manifested in countless ways, from the worship of the Egyptian sun god Ra to the sacred oak trees of the Druids...
...The 20th century saw a renewed interest in ancient pagan traditions, often called the "pagan revival" or "neo-paganism." This revival emerged out of a longing to reconnect with nature, reject the dogma of organized religion, and explore alternative forms of spirituality. Neo-paganism is diverse, encompassing a variety of movements, each drawing from different ancient traditions..."
Of course, the word "neo" just means "new," so this is referring to the modern adaptation of ancient paganism.
[Rick] (16:02 - 16:35) Paganism has been around for a very, very, very, very long time. Now, neo-paganism is the revival of those things with some adaptations in terms of where we are in history now. This is important. This is interesting, the belief that all elements of nature—rivers, trees, mountains, animals—possess a spiritual essence or consciousness. I want to remember that as we go through these Scriptures now and look at it from a biblical perspective.
Julie, let's go back to 2 Corinthians 6:14, the latter part of verse 14:
[Julie] (16:36 - 16:39) "...for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness..."
[Rick] (16:40 - 17:31) The Apostle Paul is digging deeper. He's going down to the next step. Really what he's saying here is, what partnership does righteousness—and this righteousness is a state of being made right with God.
It's not like, "Hey, I'm right and you're wrong." This is a spiritually based righteousness. What participation does righteousness have with lawlessness?
Now the word literally means "illegality," but again, it's in a spiritual sense, meaning a state of disfavor with God. It's spiritually righteous versus spiritually lawless in relation to godliness. This does not in any way imply that those who are not believers are bad; they are simply out of favor with God.
You can say, that's a bad condition. Yes, and from a Christian perspective we agree, that's a bad condition, but they're not bad people. We can't just say that because of these things.
[Jonathan] (17:32 - 17:42) As Christians, it is important that we treat pagans with respect. Many are good people, but we must not become involved in pagan beliefs or practices.
[Rick] (17:43 - 18:27) That's really the point. What partnership do righteousness and lawlessness have? He's basically saying, come on, think.
Think of what you were, think of what you are becoming, and look at the differences. Now with the origins of paganism basically put on the table for us—again, elements of the natural world and so forth, and then the newer viewpoints of those things—let's go to the origins of Christianity. The Bible's creation account in Genesis, that is essentially the origin of Christianity.
In the beginning, there was intentional action by the one God. This is important because it's a very different approach from the historical pagan traditions. Let's go to the beginning; Genesis 1:1-3:
[Jonathan] (18:28 - 18:44) "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and the darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, Let there be light; and there was light."
[Rick] (18:44 - 19:20) The first four words of the Bible help us understand the basis of Christianity. "In the beginning God..." We put Him as the centerpiece, as the Creator, as the Designer, as the Executor of all of these things.
"Let there be light." God did this. This is intentional action that created a vast ecosystem on our planet Earth.
Why did He create that vast ecosystem on our planet Earth? Let's go to Genesis--little bit more about the ecosystem--Genesis 1:11-12:
[Jonathan] (19:20 - 19:42) Then God said, Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them; and it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind;
and God saw that it was good."
[Rick] (19:42 - 19:58) God put the elements in place and let these things continue the perpetuation of life through the seed system. You've got this system that is growing into place. It's a very beautiful, intentional design by the Creator.
[Julie] (19:59 - 20:07) If we were to compare paganism and the Bible, we would say paganism attributes a spiritual essence and even a consciousness to nature.
[Jonathan] (20:08 - 20:12) The Bible emphatically declares that the one God made everything.
[Rick] (20:13 - 20:56) It's a pretty dramatic comparison. It's important to recognize that, because if all elements of the natural world—rivers, trees, mountains, animals—possess a spiritual essence or consciousness, the implication is that these things are independent of one another and sort of working together. No, these things are created by the one Creator to be part of a system that works together.
Now, why? What's the big why? Biblical creation continues with the direct creation of humanity.
If you notice in those previous verses, the vegetation and plants yielding seed after their kind... after their kind... Here's the creation of mankind. It's very, very significant.
Genesis 1:26-28:
[Jonathan] (20:57 - 21:26) "Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it..."
[Rick] (21:26 - 21:55) You see the difference with the creation of humanity. It's intentional, it's unique, and they're put in place, and it says they are given dominion over these things so that they could have this system to serve them. That's the purpose, and we need to just see it for what it actually is, a God-driven, intentional ecosystem with mankind as the object and center of all of it.
[Julie] (21:55 - 22:10) If we make a comparison, pagan beliefs differ considerably, but many forms of paganism explain the origin and sustaining of life in terms of various gods and goddesses and spirits or supernatural powers, depending on the specific tradition.
[Jonathan] (22:10 - 22:19) The Bible tells us that God created the earth and its abundance as a support system for His directly created human family.
[Rick] (22:19 - 22:28) You can see that if you have the earth created as a support system for the family, they can hardly be "the gods," because they are the support system of.
[Julie] (22:29 - 22:30) That's a good point.
[Rick] (22:30 - 22:52) It puts things in kind of a backwards perspective.
You've got to look at the essence of the introduction of these things. It tells us a world of information as to what we choose to believe in. Here's a question--a mirror question--for each of us:
Does my Christianity in any way attribute the intricacy and beauty of our world to anyone or anything but God?
[Julie] (22:52 - 23:18) You're not going to see your average Christian going out and worshiping a tree, so how is that going to affect me? We don't want to have the tendency to even casually attribute guidance or destiny or cosmic powers saying something like, "the universe is trying to tell me something" or "I want to put good energy out into the universe" or--I know you love this one, Rick--"my computer isn't working because Mercury must be in retrograde."
[Rick] (23:19 - 23:19) Yeah.
[Julie] (23:19 - 23:36) Okay, hold on. Christians might credit "Mother Nature" without even really thinking about what it is that we're saying. When I'm amazed at a breathtaking sunset, does my appreciation stop and go, "Oh, wow, that's beautiful!"
or is it going to lead me to worship the Creator?
[Rick] (23:37 - 23:59) Really, that's the essence here. Let's understand the foundation of what we believe in, and always go back to the founder, which is God Almighty, Father of Jesus Christ, and give Him the praise and honor, and let the awe of everything else draw us upward. Let's go a little further with 2 Corinthians 6:14:
[Julie] (24:00 - 24:05) "...or what fellowship (and that means close partnership) has light with darkness?"
[Rick] (24:05 - 24:30) What fellowship, what partnership do light and darkness have? Really, the answer is nothing, because darkness can't abide the light. When light shows up, darkness is overcome.
This is a picture of two very, very strong opposites. Again, we're looking at this from a spiritual perspective. Spiritually, what constitutes light and what constitutes darkness?
Jonathan, let's go to Ephesians 5:6-9:
[Jonathan] (24:30 - 25:05) "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them;
for you were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth)." This is not necessarily referring to the physical world, but rather contrasting the spiritual darkness that covers the world with light of God's plan of salvation for all through Jesus.
[Rick] (25:05 - 25:40) Yeah, and that's the point. We're talking spiritually. There are two clear opposites here.
Darkness is described as the absence of the light of God in a spiritual sense, which is inherently good, righteous, and truthful. Again, we're talking on a spiritual level. People can have a good conscience and do the right thing, and that's a good thing.
That's a nice thing. But we're talking about a higher level. What drives us spiritually?
This is the light of God that we're talking about. Another Scripture that helps us to define the fact that darkness and light are separate and distinct-- let's go to Isaiah 60:1-3:
[Jonathan] (25:41 - 25:46) "Arise, shine; for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD has risen upon you."
[Rick] (25:46 - 25:53) "The glory of the Lord," "your light has come..." The light is God's light. This is a spiritual picture.
Go ahead.
[Jonathan] (25:53 - 26:02) "...For behold, darkness will cover the earth and deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you and His glory will appear upon you."
[Rick] (26:02 - 26:22) Pause there again. This glory is God's glory, and it talks about deep darknesses over the people. It's not like the sun is being eclipsed for months and months. It is the spirituality of the goodness of God and His plan is unseen, and the world is in dark, and yet you have this glory of God upon you. Continue:
[Jonathan] (26:23 - 26:31) "...Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising." What a beautiful prophecy of what's to come!
[Rick] (26:31 - 27:01) It is, and that's the point. It's a prophecy of the coming kingdom of God through Christ. Nations will come to the light, the spiritual light of God through Jesus.
This light does not and cannot mingle with darkness. When we look at the origins of who we are and where we come from and what we believe in, paganism and Christianity are dramatically different here. Again, let's go back to "Differentiating Between Christian Beliefs and Pagan Perspectives":
[Jonathan] (27:02 - 27:23) Comparing the origins of paganism and Christianity gives us a clear and solid understanding that the two cannot, in any way, coexist as truth. If we have intellectual integrity, we will realize that one cannot truly hold parts of both beliefs without becoming a walking contradiction.
[Julie] (27:23 - 27:38) We ask: Does my Christianity seek for any compromised understanding when it comes to the origins of life and our world, subtly attributing creation, purpose, or life's complexities to powers other than God?
[Rick] (27:38 - 28:03) These are questions we need to look at and ask ourselves so we can be sure that our Christianity does not have little pieces of paganism creeping in. The Bible clearly states that our God-driven, God-created system is the absolute basis for all that we hold sacred. Let's stand on that obvious foundation.
[Jonathan] (28:03 - 28:17) So far, we've established a foundation of beliefs relating to our origin and a fundamental difference in understanding. What are the differences regarding our individual Christian or pagan approach to life?
[Rick] (28:17 - 28:50) Here is where we need to pay very close attention to what many may consider to be subtleties. Our technologically advanced world has brought us the ability to choose ways of thinking before us that have never been so easy to access. There're a lot of choices as Christians.
Caution should guide our thinking! Before we get into the Christian perspective, let's go back again, Julie, to the pagan perspective through this “Paganism Overview: Exploring Earth-Centered Spirituality," understanding and introducing modern paganism:
[Julie] (28:51 - 29:30) "While ancient paganism became community-focused, modern paganism tends to be more individualistic. This means practitioners craft their own rituals and belief systems. However, many key elements remain consistent across various pagan traditions." They list four of them.
The first one is, of these key elements, "Reverence for Nature: Whether through seasonal celebrations like the equinoxes or solstices, or daily rituals that honor the earth, modern pagans maintain a deep connection to nature. This often extends into environmental activism, with many pagans committed to ecological causes."
[Rick] (29:31 - 30:24) You have modern paganism tending toward being more individualistic. Is that any surprise in the world in which we live? No.
What it shows you is that the basis is broad. It's like, choose whatever you want. It's all here on the earth.
Just pick a piece and then make it your god, make it your belief system. When we look at this, we've got to be really, really cautious about this individualistic, "I can create my own rituals and belief systems now." As Christians, we can't.
We shouldn't. We don't want to. Why?
Because we've been given the guidelines that we need to cling to, to run to, to embrace. Our clear focus as Christians is to respect nature, absolutely respect it, as it was created by God for humanity's good. We went over that in Genesis.
Now let's go back to that in Romans 1:18-21:
[Jonathan] (30:25 - 31:14) "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened." Paul is essentially saying that we have ample evidence of the power of our one God as demonstrated through His creation.
[Rick] (31:14 - 31:45) When you look at all of this you've got to recognize, especially now in the 21st century, you look at the ecological system and how it's self-perpetuating, and it can't be by chance. It's always got to be by the choice, by the design of something greater. In Romans it talks about their "futile speculations."
In paganism, it talks about practitioners crafting their own rituals and belief systems based on what they feel is right. We've got to be really, really careful about these things.
[Julie] (31:45 - 32:25) One of the questions we might ask is: Does my Christianity in any way make room for an inappropriately elevated respect of nature? We should be grateful for creation. We should care for it responsibly.
That's wonderful. But again, we worship the Creator, not the creation. There's nothing wrong with enjoying hiking or gardening or bird watching, but we don't want to start thinking that there's some sort of inherent spiritual energy in a crystal or a tree or mountain or body of water.
The issue is not in appreciating creation, but whether creation begins to receive the honor that belongs to God alone.
[Rick] (32:25 - 32:58) You asked a really good question. Do we make any room for inappropriately elevating our respect for nature? We should have respect for nature.
It should be an awestruck respect for nature, unquestionably in the context of godliness. That's the key. I appreciated the way you put that in order.
We looked at the reverence for nature as the first piece in terms of our Christianity. Let's go now to some of the other pieces that were mentioned in what you introduced to us earlier in this segment, Julie, let's go back to the exploring earth-centered spirituality.
[Julie] (32:58 - 34:18) Remember the pagans, even though you now have your own individual ideas of what that means, there's generally four key elements. Here's the last three: "Magic and Spell Work: Magic—often spelled ‘m-a-g-i-c-k’ within pagan communities to distinguish it from stage magic—is viewed as a natural extension of one’s will, intent, and energy.
Spellwork can involve various tools like candles, herbs, crystals, and incantations. The focus is generally on personal growth, healing, and harmony rather than controlling others." The third item that's common is "Divination: Many pagans practice forms of divination such as tarot (like tarot cards), rune casting, or scrying (I think it's pronounced), to gain insight into the future or their own subconscious."
Then finally, "Ethics and the Rule of Three: While ethical systems vary across pagan traditions, Wicca (we know that as white or good witchcraft, if there's such a thing), is known for the "Rule of Three." This states that whatever energy a person puts into the world—positive or negative—will return to them threefold.
Other pagans follow similar principles, emphasizing personal responsibility and harm reduction."
[Rick] (34:19 - 34:44) There's a lot about personal will in here, and taking control of things in here, and rising above your human station in here. That's all part of the many aspects of paganism. We look at all of this and say, you can see where people would be very attracted to these things because a lot of it is about personal power, personal application, and being able to control things, and have a say in destiny, so to speak.
[Julie] (34:44 - 34:46) Wouldn't we all love to know the future?
[Rick] (34:46 - 35:12) Of course, of course. We've got to look at that. Now let's examine, with those things in place, let's examine a few of the practices that were forbidden, okay?
Let's understand what the word "forbidden" means. When something is forbidden, it means you can't have it-- practices that were forbidden by God's specific instructions.
These prohibitions are found in the Old Testament and are reaffirmed in the New Testament. Let's do an overview here. Jonathan, let's go to Deuteronomy 18:10:
[Jonathan] (35:12 - 36:02) "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer." The prophet Jeremiah later warned God's people not to listen to enchanters, diviners or sorcerers in Jeremiah 27:9 and Jeremiah 29:8. Jeremiah also condemned false prophets who relied upon "false vision and divination" rather than God's revelation in Jeremiah 14:14. Divination is the practice of obtaining supernatural knowledge apart from God.
[Julie] (36:02 - 36:28) Of course, then the New Testament continues to reject occult practices. Just a few quick examples: In Acts 13:6-12, Paul condemns Elymas the sorcerer. In Acts 19:19, new believers publicly burned their books of magic. They renounced these practices rather than bringing them along and incorporating them into Christianity. In Galatians 5:19-21, sorcery is listed among one of the works of the flesh. And there's more.
We'll put them in this week's CQ Rewind Show Notes.
[Rick] (36:28 - 37:04) The bottom line is we've just taken five minutes and looked at a few Old Testament Scriptures and a few New Testament Scriptures that profoundly states these things are forbidden. They are against the cause of Christianity. There is no middle ground.
They are forbidden. You run away from them. Old Testament, New Testament, it's all precisely connected and very, very clear.
Having said that, let's go back to 2 Corinthians 6, where the Apostle Paul is telling us very, very emphatically to walk away from these kinds of things. Let's go to 2 Corinthians 6:15:
[Julie] (37:04 - 37:42) "Or what harmony has Christ with Belial or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?" This word, "or what 'harmony' has Christ," this is a really interesting verb.
It means "to agree." The English word "symphony" is derived from the noun version of this word, which means "an agreement of sound." We look to Bible commentary from Matthew Poole on "What is Belial?":
"This term is used only in this place in the New Testament, but very often in the Old Testament, to express men (who are) notoriously wicked and scandalous."
[Rick] (37:42 - 38:21) "What harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?" You're talking about dramatic differences. See, there's no subtlety here.
The Apostle Paul is telling us this is not where you have to parse through things. This is dramatic. This is basic.
What harmony have those under Christ with the world as those under Satan's rule? That's the drama of this. Ours is a spiritual symphony, and if you're taking instruments that don't belong and creating discord, you're taking that symphony and you're ruining its message.
We can't go there.
[Jonathan] (38:22 - 38:32) Here's another important mirror question: Is my Christianity in any way drawn towards the drama and power that paganism seems to offer?
[Julie] (38:32 - 39:34) Sure. You've got the appeal of, again, seeing the future in even something as "harmless" as horoscopes; or "angel numbers" are very popular right now, where you see the same number over and over again and think that that means something. Crystals, energy healing, and manifesting often lies in the promise of answers or a sense of control over situations that we can't control.
Manifesting is very popular. It promotes the idea that we can visualize what we want to make come true, and that often replaces prayerful submission to God's will with the confidence of our own ability to shape our own reality. In this week's CQ Rewind Show Notes, again, we're going to put a link to a great article at ChristianQuestions.com about manifestation. We should also ask whether we are drawn to things like this because they might seem mysterious or ancient or forbidden or in some way very "sexy." For some, this idea of possessing secret knowledge is hard to resist.
[Jonathan] (39:35 - 39:43) Are these practices truly harmless, or do they reveal a desire to look beyond God's providence for answers or control?
[Rick] (39:43 - 40:11) That's the point. Looking beyond God's providence...not being satisfied with allowing God's will to unfold but taking things into our own hands to exhibit some kind of energy and power to make things happen. That is a very paganistic approach versus the Christian approach of submission to the will of God.
We as Christians seek spiritual harmony in accordance with God's Word and God's will. That's what drives us. 1 Peter 1:13-16:
[Jonathan] (40:12 - 40:52) "Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance..." We once lived according to our former lusts because we didn't know any better. But now, because we are in Christ, we know better. Let's continue with verse 15: "...but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
[Rick] (41:06 - 41:23) You were once there--remember the Old Testament--they were once there, they were in Babylon, they were captive. They had to walk away and establish new habits. We, as human beings, may have been "once there," we have to walk away and establish new habits. When you walk away from something, by definition you leave it behind, and the place you walk towards is holy. It is sanctified. It is set apart for the purposes of God Almighty to be active in our lives. Again, "Differentiating Between Christian Beliefs and Pagan Perspectives":
[Jonathan] (41:24 - 41:27) The deeper we go into comparing the personal practices of Christianity and paganism, the more we realize the depth of the differences that separate us. This does not mean we disrespect those who practice paganism, for Jesus died for them as he died for us. We respect them as our fellow humans as we stay away from their practices!
[Rick] (41:52 - 42:09) You can love them and recognize them as having been ransomed by Jesus, but we just don't do what they do. We can see how the differences between paganism and Christianity are growing more and more dramatic. We really need to pay attention!
[Jonathan] (42:10 - 42:13) After reviewing many aspects of paganism through a lens of biblical perspective, what is the bottom line?
[Rick] (42:20 - 42:53) First of all, it bears repeating again and again and again that we are to always respect our fellow human beings as they seek to follow what they believe to be good and righteous. Always have respect for that.
For Christians, our bottom line must always be drawn from the understanding and following of clear scriptural guidance. All of what we have seen regarding pagan beliefs can be summed up in one clear biblical teaching. One clear biblical teaching puts this all in order, and that is: Flee from idolatry! Based in the Old Testament, repeated in the New Testament. Let's go to the Old Testament origin, the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20:4:
[Jonathan] (42:54 - 43:01) "Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
[Julie] (43:12 - 43:57) Of course, you recognize that as one of the Ten Commandments. Just like the next generation that we talked previously about leaving captivity of Babylon, Moses restates this commandment to the second generation of Israelites just before entering the Promised Land. He goes into more detail in Deuteronomy 4:15-20.
They were not to make images of God or to be drawn into worshiping the sun, the moon, the stars, animals, any part of God's creation. It's sad that God needed to state all that, but God's invisible nature--they didn't know what He looked like-- His invisible nature distinguished Him from these many pagan religions that represented their gods through idols and images.
You don't need to make an image of God.
[Rick] (43:57 - 45:11) You have this stated clarity of having no idols. The other part of idolatry, other potential gods in our lives, are not those things on the outside, but they could be ego, or people, or success, or comfort, or wealth, or power, or social media or position. These could be idols in our lives that we are drawn to, and that we walk away from our heavenly Father to be serving those idols.
Some other idols can be perhaps possessions, or objects, or pictures, or symbols, all of which can enhance ego. I just want to pause there because it sure looks to me (Rick's opinion) like paganism really enhances ego. It gives you power and strength and the ability to divine and direct things.
Other idols, enhancing ego, unduly elevating people, depicting success, comfort, wealth, power, social position, all of these things are under the heading of idolatry. All of them we need to run away from if we are serving the one God through Jesus. All right, Julie, let's go back to
2 Corinthians 6:16:
[Julie] (45:11 - 45:18) "Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols?" How do these two things work together? Well, they don't.
[Rick] (45:19 - 45:55) That's really the point. Paul has been asking these questions and it's like, yeah, it doesn't work. Yeah, that doesn't work.
Yeah, that doesn't work. No, no, this one doesn't work either. Okay, let's understand this.
A temple is where religion is kept. That's kind of a general religious perspective. For religious people, including pagans, a temple signifies a place of sacred meaning and worship.
Here's the question: Where is the temple of God that the Apostle is referring to in this verse? Because it says, "what agreement has the temple of God with idols?"
Well, Paul's answer is in the next, actually the next two verses. Julie, let's go back to 2 Corinthians 6:16-17:
[Julie] (45:56 - 46:37) "For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said (now he's going to quote from Isaiah 52:11-12 that we already read), I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE, says the Lord. AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; and I will welcome you." Now Paul, took Isaiah Scriptures and applies them--this command--now to Christians.
Just as Israel was called to leave Babylon behind, we are called to leave behind any worldview that competes with wholehearted devotion to God.
[Rick] (46:37 - 48:31) Come out from them and be separate. Don't touch what is unclean. What does this mean for me as a Christian?
Let's think about it. Make it very, very personal. I am not my own.
I must therefore be and only do what is in accord, in agreement with sanctification, with being set aside for a holy purpose, with being a temple. I'm obligated to be the temple. This is the reason that I was called and I MUST therefore sanctify myself, set myself aside, set myself apart, because that's what I promised to do, because that's what Jesus did and I promised to walk in his footsteps.
"What agreement has the temple of God (us) with idols?" The answer is none! There is no agreement.
As Christians, our lives are SO much bigger than the spiritual searching of paganism. You've got the spiritual searching going on versus the spiritual clarity of true Christianity. Let's look at 2 Peter 2, and Jonathan, we're going to do several verses here, 4-5, then verse 9, and then verses 11-12 <2 Peter 2:4-5, 9, 11-12>:
JONATHAN:
"And coming to him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
RICK:
Listen to what that just said. You "are being built up as a spiritual house." You're this temple.
For what reason? For a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices, it's accepting God through Jesus. You have a higher way of life.
You can't be part of those things. Let's go to verse 9.
[Jonathan] (48:32 - 48:46) "... But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light..."
[Rick] (48:46 - 49:08) There's the darkness and the light. You were called out of that into this spiritual life, and now you're "a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession," "a chosen race." You have become something different.
We cannot mix what was or what is out there with what we have been given. Let's continue with verse 11.
[Jonathan] (49:09 - 49:12) "Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers..."
[Rick] (49:12 - 49:28) Okay, wait, wait, pause, pause again. "As aliens and strangers..." in other words, you are now foreign to the world that you were comfortable in.
I am urging you as aliens and strangers in this world that your purpose is something different. What is that purpose? Let's continue <verses 11-12>:
[Jonathan] (49:29 - 50:02) "...to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul. Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation." Wow, this is a great responsibility! It will be costly and difficult to maintain such a high standard while living in the midst of darkness. Yet at the same time, we are set free in Christ.
[Rick] (50:03 - 50:49) Like you said, Jonathan, there is a cost, but because of who you are, because of what you stand for, and because of what you do, you will be an example for them. In the day of resurrection, in the day of judgment, they will remember those things. You may have been an alien and a stranger in this world, but in that world you become an example of what is godliness. That's the point.
We have to stay away from and run towards, and there is no middle ground. When we look at all of this, what's the result of all of this setting apart of our lives? 2 Corinthians 6 gives us the answer to that as well.
He kept comparing, does this work? No. Does this comparison work?
No. Does this comparison work? No.
What's the conclusion? Julie, 2 Corinthians 6:18.
[Julie] (50:49 - 50:59) This is really unbelievable: "And I will be a Father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to Me, says the Lord Almighty." Can you imagine?!
[Rick] (51:00 - 51:22) It is hard to get your head around that, about the depth, around the depth and the clarity and the focus and the sincerity and the promise, and the magnitude of calling the Creator of all things. Remember we quoted Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning, God created..." Now this is saying, if you walk away from all of those former things, you are now My child. That is a powerful, powerful...
[Julie] (51:23 - 51:26) ... family. We're family!
[Rick] (51:27 - 51:52) It all comes because of Jesus. It all becomes because of what he did.
It is darkness versus light. That's what we need to see. That's the end result of thoroughly, completely, utterly and overwhelmingly walking away from paganism towards true sanctified Christianity.
Finally, "Differentiating Between Christian Beliefs and Pagan Perspectives":
[Julie] (51:52 - 52:22) Those who seek goodness and power in their lives through the limitless options that paganism offers are, in many cases, examples of good and wholesome people who are trying to make the world a better place. Let us respect their desire to do good and be encouraged by the fact that Jesus has already made provision for this through God's coming kingdom. Let us love them for their desire to do good, while standing ONLY for the one true God and the direction He has given us in His holy word, the Bible.
[Rick] (52:22 - 53:12) Really, that's the bottom line here, folks. As we wrap this up, it's pretty clear, it's pretty straightforward. You have a world that is full of all kinds of belief systems and projections as to what can be, and senses of power and influence and belonging.
Then you have true Christianity, which says come and follow something higher, so that in the future you can bless all of them. That's true Christianity. That's what we belong to.
Only that is what we need to be following every day of our life. Flee idolatry, flee pagan beliefs, and trust in God through Christ. Think about it.
Coming up in our next episode: "Are Gossip and Slander Part of My Social Connections?"
Final Notes: copyright @2026 Christian Questions. In addition to this transcript, we provide comprehensive CQ Rewind Show Notes for every episode. They include every scripture quoted during the podcast, as well as graphics, illustrations and bonus material. Click the "CQ Rewind Show Notes" button near the audio player or sign up to receive these weekly at ChristianQuestions.com. This transcript was created using artificial intelligence. While we believe it to be accurate, we apologize for any errors that may exist.