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[Announcer] (0:00 - 0:18) Think about the Bible like you never have before. You're listening to Christian Questions. Access more audio, videos, and Bible study resources at ChristianQuestions.com.

Our topic is: "Can Christians Lose Their Salvation?" Part II. Here's Rick, Jonathan, and Julie.

[Rick] (0:21 - 0:31) Welcome everyone, I'm Rick, I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over twenty-five years. Julie, a longtime contributor, is also with us. Jonathan, what's our theme Scripture for this episode?

[Jonathan] (0:31 - 0:41) Hebrews 10:26: "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins."

[Rick] (0:42 - 1:50) Salvation. It's a foundational belief that every Christian stands upon. We all claim renewal as a result of Jesus dying for our sins.

Sounds simple and straightforward--until we begin to ask the hard questions about how salvation actually works. In Part I of this two part series, we took a hard scriptural look at the mechanics of salvation. We'll begin Part II by briefly summarizing our Part I conversation regarding what we believe the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, teaches us about this salvation.

Next, we will dive deeply into the very controversial question about a Christian's ability or inability to ever lose that salvation. Answering this question needs clear and plainly stated biblical support, so let's find it. Before we begin, we just want to put it on the table:

We firmly believe that Christians can lose their salvation. Let's begin that recap. What is this salvation from?

It's from eternal death. Jonathan, 1 Corinthians 15:22:

[Jonathan] (1:50 - 2:08) "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." "All die...all will be made alive." This applies to ALL; every man, woman, and child who ever lived.

Also notice this text contrasts death and life, not eternal hellfire with life.

[Rick] (2:08 - 2:18) That's an important baseline for us to work with. Now, how is someone "saved"? Is there a cost, or is it a free gift?

[Julie] (2:18 - 2:49) Well, yes, it is a free gift. Romans 6:23 says: "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." But there is a cost, because Romans 12:1 says: "Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship."

So yes, it's given freely, but that doesn't mean there isn't work required on our part.

[Rick] (2:50 - 3:02) Alright, so we have to look at that, the two pieces working together. Moving through putting the foundation in place, how does this salvation work? Well, it actually works in two stages.

[Jonathan] (3:02 - 3:19) First, there is salvation by invitation, only for a few, which we talked about in our last episode. John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."

[Rick] (3:19 - 3:47) We have that Scripture that makes it very clear--everybody's not invited. When you've got everybody not invited, you have to say, okay, then what's going to happen to everybody else? We'll get to the everybody else, but let's look at the ones who are invited.

We've accepted this free gift. Our mission is to follow the path that biblical Scriptures lead us on. The bottom line of this--Julie, you already alluded to this--but there is work to be done.

Let's look at Luke 9:23:

[Jonathan] (3:47 - 4:19) "And he was saying to them all, If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow me." Jesus took up his cross and walked knowingly and willingly towards torture and death. Following him is not easy.

It means the sacrificing of our lives to do the will of God. Revelation 2:10: "Do not fear what you were about to suffer...

be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

[Julie] (4:19 - 5:41) Second, we have the everybody else you referred to. Salvation by just and merciful inclusion shows us the plan of God for all His human creation. 1 Timothy 2:3-6 in the King James (KJV) says: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." That Greek word here for "knowledge" means "full discernment." That's a deep, accurate understanding, not just awareness.

Notice the order. Non-Christians are first saved and then taught after. For the Christian now, that order is believe--

you get that knowledge first--and you are saved. These two different phases of salvation are the end result of Jesus paying the ransom for ALL. Let's look at 1 Timothy 4:10:

"For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers." As we pointed out last week, there's these two distinct groups: "all men;" "especially believers."

Believers receive salvation now, the rest of humanity receives salvation later.

[Rick] (5:41 - 6:28) Because there's two aspects of salvation, you have to wonder, how do they work together? What we're going to see is those who are called by invitation now are actually called now for the purpose of becoming faithful ahead of time, to be assisting the rest of those who are called to salvation by just and merciful inclusion. Those who respond to this invitation right now, to be disciples of Jesus right now, will play a powerful role in the salvation of everyone else.

That salvation comes in a just and merciful way for the entire world of mankind, for all of humanity later. Let's look at 2 Corinthians 5:17-19.

[Jonathan] (6:29 - 7:20) Here's how the two salvations are connected: "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation." When God gives us His spirit, He begins a new life within us. We become a "new creature."

It's a transformation that comes with responsibility. God reconciles us to Himself through Christ, and then we are given the ministry of reconciliation, the work of helping the world of mankind find their way back to God in the kingdom. We're invited, they're included.

[Rick] (7:21 - 7:41) It's teaching the students--that's what Jesus had with his disciples--and the students learn and then become the teachers of the next group of students, which is the rest of the world of mankind. We have to put that all in order and understand this is how the Bible describes salvation; two pieces.

Let's look at Romans 5:19:

[Jonathan] (7:42 - 8:04) "For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one the many will be made righteous." Adam's free choice brought death to all humanity, and Jesus' free choice brings life to all humanity. The same "many" who became sinners in Adam are the "many" made righteous in Christ, meaning everyone.

[Rick] (8:04 - 8:40) It's a very straightforward, clear picture. As we've gone through this recap, we ended Part I with this next Scripture. In this next Scripture, it really gives a beautiful picture of love and protection.

If this calling is so filled with blessing and support, what can happen to make someone lose it? I mean, what could possibly happen to make someone lose it? Well first of all, let's establish that no enemy can ever take this gift from us.

No enemy can ever take this gift from us. That's what it says in Romans 8:38-39:

[Julie] (8:41 - 9:13) "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Here the Apostle Paul is listing external forces, things outside of us, that can't sever the relationship that God has established. HOWEVER, God does not override our free will.

We saw that principle exampled last week in Lucifer, Adam, and even Esau.

[Rick] (9:13 - 9:32) It's important to recognize things on the outside, once you are on that track, you can be impervious to them, but you were not impervious to what comes from within ourselves --got to keep that thought in mind, and we'll look at Scriptures on that. Jonathan, thus far, what do we have with Salvation and Sacrificial Commitment:

[Jonathan] (9:33 - 10:01) Eternal salvation's first application is to those whom God has called to follow Jesus. The Scriptures teach us that walking this path challenges, stretches, and presses us toward deep personal conviction and daily sacrifice. Faithfulness to this call brings the future opportunity to serve as "ministers of reconciliation" for the world when salvation is applied to all humanity through just and merciful inclusion.

[Rick] (10:02 - 10:22) You have the first wave of salvation that prepares for the second, much greater wave of salvation, putting the teachers in place for the future. With this scriptural basis set, we need to make sure that our personal beliefs are firmly rooted in what the Bible teaches.

[Jonathan] (10:23 - 10:33) So far, we have seen that power, privilege, and personal accountability are all results of our salvation here and now. Does this mean we can lose that salvation?

[Rick] (10:33 - 11:06) We need to answer this question very carefully. We cannot lose our salvation arbitrarily. We can't lose it by accident, so there's a relief there.

However, we can give it away. The Scriptures show us that we can consciously reject this powerful and freeing gift given from God through Jesus. Christians can only lose their salvation by their own choices and by their own free will.

Please hear those words!

[Julie] (11:07 - 11:14) You're saying that we alone have the power to reject the gift given even after we've received it, and we're going to read some Scriptures to prove that.

[Rick] (11:14 - 11:37) Yes, absolutely. Let's set the groundwork for understanding how one would choose to put this gift aside. Now remember, what we're going to be going over here only applies to those who have God's spirit here and now in this life.

That's all we're talking about here, because that's all these Scriptures are talking about. Let's start with Hebrews 10:23-25:

[Jonathan] (11:37 - 12:17) "Let us hold fast (meaning don't let go!) the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near." The entire chapter is addressed to Christians who have already been enlightened, sanctified, and brought into covenant relationship with Christ.

A command to hold fast only makes sense if we could let go. We are urged to stay connected because wavering is a real spiritual danger.

[Julie] (12:17 - 12:27) Perhaps a potential warning sign that we can look at in ourselves is if we are losing interest and focus on true Christian fellowship.

[Rick] (12:27 - 12:37) This Scripture tells us don't forsake the gathering of yourselves together, basically saying there is much more strength when we surround each other with hope, love, and encouragement.

[Julie] (12:38 - 13:06) Jonathan, I'm glad that you brought up the context of Hebrews 10. It's clearly addressing those in Christ, because the position of many who say "once saved, always saved" is that a TRUE Christian cannot willfully sin, because if they do, they were never spirit-begotten, and they can't lose a salvation that they never actually had. But, here Hebrews 10 is speaking to those true Christians, and Paul's warning them of that danger of willful sin. You don't warn people about something that can't happen.

[Rick] (13:07 - 13:18) Let's go even further, okay? We quoted Hebrews 10:23-25. Now let's go on to Hebrews 10:26, because that really pushes this concept in a much deeper way.

[Jonathan] (13:18 - 13:46) "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins..." The Greek word here for "knowledge" means "full discernment." It's the same one we read earlier in 1 Timothy 2:4 ("who have all been to be saved and come unto the knowledge {full discernment} of the truth"). The warning here in Hebrews is directed at those who are still sinning willfully after having been enlightened.

[Julie] (13:46 - 13:55) It said there will be no more sacrifice for sins. Is that another way of saying that there isn't another Jesus who will die for you, because he only died once for all?

[Rick] (13:56 - 14:05) That's exactly the point. We get salvation once through Christ, and this is a warning about taking that and essentially throwing it away.

[Julie] (14:05 - 14:25) This warning is sinning willfully--choosing sinful decisions after this full discernment, this full knowledge, through God's spirit of His truth. It's clearly acting out of accordance with God's stated will for Christians. Does this mean that knowingly committing a sin automatically negates our salvation, though?

[Rick] (14:26 - 14:46) No. It's really important to recognize that if we commit a willful sin, we can repent from that willful sin, and we can be forgiven and stand up again. The key is not to be involved in a life of willful sinning and walking away and not repenting.

That's the warning. Don't go down that road.

[Julie] (14:47 - 15:34) As we move forward now, I'd like to bring up some of the credible arguments that this "once saved, always saved" side would bring up, and what Scriptures they bring up. Let's look at Romans 8:29-30: "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His son, so that he would be the firstborn among many brethren;

and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

Here's the argument: Those God predestined are also called, justified, and glorified. That's a guarantee that if you're justified, you'll be glorified.

It's a completed chain, they would say. No one drops out. If you can lose your salvation, then this text would be wrong.

[Rick] (15:34 - 16:59) If I look at this quickly, I could see how you come up with that conclusion. However, we need to take the Scripture in its appropriate context, because, Julie, that's not what it's saying. It's a misapplication of the Scriptures.

Let's focus in on this. These verses are addressing the body of a Christ as a complete whole. It's not addressing individuals; it's talking about the body of Christ as a complete unit.

This "predestination" spoken about began in the mind of God ages before it came to pass. God saw the plan and Paul's explaining the big picture. He's not talking about you and I, he's talking about all of the called-out ones together, saying this group was predestined, this group went through these stages.

When we see that, it helps us to understand that he's showing us what's happening in a macro sense, when our lives are in a micro sense. It's not saying that we are glorified now, it's saying this is what happens to the whole called-out group called the church. Let's actually go a little bit further.

Let's explain this glorification in a little bit of a different way. The Apostle John, in a very subtle way, explains what individual glorification looks like and when it happens. He's not trying to explain it, it just is coming out in the context of the verse.

Jonathan, let's go to John 12:16.

[Jonathan] (17:00 - 17:14) John is recounting these things about Jesus: "These things his disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things to him."

[Rick] (17:14 - 18:03) What you have in this verse is, when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered these things. Well, was Jesus glorified before he died? Of course not.

He was glorified after he's raised from the dead, and then they began to remember. The pathway of Jesus, being the first faithful one, shows us the pathway of offering, of sacrifice, and then of being raised to glorification. When we look at it, are we saying that we're running ahead of Jesus?

That we're glorified now? Jesus wasn't glorified when he walked the earth. How could we possibly be in that position?

That's why when you take this verse and you try to apply it to individuals, it falls apart. It's talking about the whole. It's talking about the big picture.

[Julie] (18:04 - 18:18) Paul, you're saying, is describing the church as a completed body in God's plan. This is the procedure that happens to this group, not the guaranteed outcome of each individual. The group is predestined, but the individual still must remain faithful.

[Rick] (18:18 - 18:50) Exactly, exactly. Let's go a little bit further. We need to remember what the world considers acceptable is not what we as Christians are to consider acceptable.

We live in a different world, so to speak. We live by different rules. Temptation towards all of what follows in this next Scripture--the temptations, and there's lots of them listed--we're going to look at these as real strong potential danger zones.

Danger zones. Okay, Jonathan, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

[Jonathan] (18:51 - 19:48) I'll read from the Weymouth translation: "Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit God's kingdom? Cherish no delusion here

(other translations say things like, "do not be deceived," or "do not be led astray," but "cherish no delusion" says it all). Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime, nor thieves, nor avaricious people, nor any who are addicted to hard drinking, to abusive language or to greed of gain, will inherit God's kingdom. And all this describes what some of you were.

But now you have had every stain washed off; now you have been set apart as holy; now you have been pronounced free from guilt; in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and through the spirit of our God."

Don't kid yourself. "Cherish no delusion." This behavior is not acceptable in Christ.

Don't go back to what you were.

[Rick] (19:48 - 20:23) It's saying, will not inherit the kingdom. You were once there. You are not there.

You've been cleansed, and stay cleansed. You wouldn't be asking someone, encouraging someone, admonishing someone to stay cleansed if it was a given and it's impossible for them to go back. The admonishment is don't let your past, don't let those things come into your heart or mind,

even one iota. Make sure you stand away from, above, and beyond those things. You see, the potential to fall is there.

[Julie] (20:24 - 20:35) Paul's saying, don't go back to where you were. Not, you could never go back even if you tried. He's not claiming that a spirit-begotten Christian is incapable of willful sin, because free will is still in play.

[Rick] (20:36 - 21:30) Yes, yeah. Now let's look at the potential danger zones that we brought up, that this 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 brings up. The Apostle Paul here is powerfully, powerfully announcing that unrighteousness does not inherit the kingdom.

Period. There's no, but what about...what if...but if it was only a little bit...what...no! There's no middle ground. It's either a "yes" or "no" here.

He's telling the brotherhood to--like you said, Jonathan, several times--"cherish no delusion," meaning they should not even entertain these sins a little bit. Gee, wouldn't be great if we could...none of that is allowed! Why say this?

Why say this? Because. Because it can happen!

We could lose our salvation by going down these roads again, even though we had been cleansed from them already.

[Julie] (21:31 - 21:53) Okay, but let me bring up another argument from someone who would say that you cannot lose your salvation. They would quote Philippians 1:6: "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."

The claim is simple. God finishes what He starts. If He began the good work, He guarantees the end.

[Jonathan] (21:53 - 22:09) However, Paul is expressing confidence in God's faithfulness, not saying the outcome is automatically guaranteed. God finishes His work in those who continue to cooperate with Him, because God is faithful. YOU must be faithful, too!

[Rick] (22:09 - 22:42) Alright, so it's talking about God's faithfulness, and you're saying, okay, yeah, but it says He will perfect you until the day. I mean, you grab hold of it. Look, we should grab hold of that.

We should grab hold of that promise and want to hold on to it because it helps keep us in the right direction. But let's look at the very next chapter in Philippians. In that second chapter of Philippians, the Apostle Paul continues encouraging the brotherhood to rise above challenges.

He's continuing to encourage them to rise above challenges, meaning they could fall in the challenges. Listen to Philippians 2:12-13:

[Jonathan] (22:43 - 23:07) "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." If the outcome is already guaranteed, why would we have to work out salvation "with fear and trembling"?

[Julie] (23:08 - 23:24) That's a good question, but here's how they would answer that. The counter argument to that is that "work out" means "work outward." In other words, display the salvation that you already possess, not that it means to maintain or guard it or to take it seriously because danger exists.

[Jonathan] (23:25 - 23:36) Yes, but if Paul meant "work outward," he would have said "live out" or "show" your salvation. But he used a verb that means "to finish;" to carry something through to its intended end.

[Julie] (23:37 - 23:52) Okay, so "work out" really does mean "work out." The next issue is they would say that "fear and trembling" isn't really fear and trembling. It means having reverent awe, deep respect, not an actual fear of falling away.

Because God is doing the work, salvation can't be lost.

[Jonathan] (23:52 - 24:03) But the Greek word really means "fear and trembling." Paul used the phrase three other times, and it always means "with seriousness in caution," never the "reverent awe."

[Rick] (24:03 - 25:14) What do we come down to here? We come down to, listen to what the Scriptures are teaching. Look up the words, understand what they mean, and accept them.

If we have a perspective that's not in line with what we're hearing through Scripture, maybe we should look at our perspective instead of look at the Scripture and say, this (my perspective) needs changing, not the Scriptures. Those are the things we need to be really, really cautious about. It's just important for us to put things in order.

I mean, look back at creation, for goodness sake. God said that His work was "very good." Remember at the end of the Sixth Day, He said, My work is "very good."

Now, when God says something's "very good," you can be sure that it is completely awesome. And yet, He allowed sin to enter. Why would He do that if His work was "very good"?

Because part of His plan is the ability for free will to have its say. He doesn't squash that. He allows it, and that's why you see Adam sin, you saw Lucifer, Satan, fall from grace, you see all of this happening. With those who are called, we could have the same things happen to us.

[Julie] (25:15 - 25:24) God is not removing personal responsibility, and we do have to work out our salvation with "fear and trembling." That's actually what the words mean, and He will not override our choices.

[Rick] (25:25 - 25:46) Absolutely not. He gives us the ability to choose, and that is part of the amazing greatness and wisdom of God. It's such a big picture and it has eternity in mind, and He understands and teaches us how to have free will work positively in that.

Again, Jonathan, Salvation and Sacrificial Commitment:

[Jonathan] (25:47 - 26:18) Our Christianity has been given to us as a free gift, and yet we are required to apply that gift diligently to bring it to fruition. Our profound commitment to live a truly Christian life in this deluded and broken world requires deep thought and intention. The privilege of discipleship and having God's spirit dwelling within us requires our full dedication to the morality, principles, and godliness that the Scriptures spell out for us. "Cherish no delusion!"

[Rick] (26:18 - 26:42) We should not get stuck in the things that we'd like to think, like to have, it's all about me. It is not about us. Never is it about us.

It is about walking in the footsteps of Jesus. These Scriptures show us the depth of sober thoughtfulness required to follow Jesus. This is not to be taken lightly!

[Jonathan] (26:42 - 26:50) How serious are these warning signs? What conditions of a true Christian's heart and mind would have to be in place to cause concern?

[Rick] (26:51 - 27:24) All right, that's a really important question. The first thing to note here is that the depth of concern for this potential loss of salvation is only reserved for those who have truly been called by God, who have answered that call, and have actually been begotten by God's spirit. Every other human being will have their time of testing on the Day of Judgment after their resurrection.

They are not included in this present important discussion. We need to make sure we know who we're talking about so we can understand "the what" and "the how."

[Julie] (27:24 - 27:55) Let me bring up a "once saved, always saved" Scripture used is Ephesians 1:13: "In him (Jesus), you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in him with the holy spirit of promise." The argument is, having a seal means permanence.

If God seals you, you can't be unsealed. It's finished, it's locked, it's irreversible. Therefore, salvation can't be lost, they would say.

[Jonathan] (27:55 - 28:32) Yes, but the very next verse, verse 14, explains what that "seal" actually is. "It (speaking of the holy spirit) is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to a redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory." This word for "pledge" in the Greek always means "a pledge," a down payment, a first installment.

In Greek business and marriage contracts, this pledge was binding and serious, but not the final covenant. Here in Ephesians, this is something that guarantees God's intention, but it's not the completed inheritance.

[Julie] (28:32 - 28:56) Your translation said, "is given as a pledge of our inheritance," and I noticed that some translations don't use the word "pledge." They actually say "guarantee," as in, the spirit is the guarantee of our inheritance. But even translations that use "guarantee" in English, they're describing the function of a pledge.

They don't change the meaning of the Greek word. A guarantee of something isn't the thing itself.

[Rick] (28:57 - 30:00) It's really important to put this in order. When you recognize this, and you said, Julie, you said the argument is that you were sealed with the holy spirit, therefore it can't be broken because it's sealed. Done deal, over, move on.

What this is saying is, this is a pledge, a down payment of something. Then it explains why, and explains the how in the next few words of this verse. Now remember, Ephesians 1:13 is where the question is. Ephesians 1:14 is where the answer is. It says you've got this pledge of this down payment "with a view to the redemption of God's own possession." "With a view to the redemption"--

with a view to what's coming. With a view to the future. So it's telling us it's not solid and sealed and delivered completely now, it's got a view toward what's in the future.

We need to understand and accept the way the word of God explains itself. The rest of the payment of our inheritance comes after we have proven faithful. If we don't prove ourselves faithful, then we don't inherit.

[Julie] (30:01 - 30:18) If I was going to sum that up, the Apostle Paul does say we're sealed, but then he explains that the seal is a pledge, not the actual inheritance. God is guaranteeing His part, but again, He's not going to override our free will. Faithfulness is still required in order to get the full inheritance.

[Rick] (30:18 - 30:44) Exactly. You still have to be faithful. Now let's go further with this.

Let's further focus on the biblically stated conditions that exist when this tragic loss takes place. The Bible does give us the conditions. The Bible gives us the conditions explicitly, clearly, and repeatedly.

We need to look at these verses and absorb and accept what they're saying. We're at Hebrews 4:4-6, and folks, please listen carefully to how these verses read:

[Jonathan] (30:44 - 30:52) "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the holy spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the son of God and put him to open shame."

[Rick] (31:17 - 32:01) You have these verses, and there's a lot in these verses.

We're going to need to take them apart, but the first thing I want to draw attention to is how many "ands" there are. They've been enlightened, AND they've tasted the heavenly gift, AND they've been made partakers, AND they've tasted the good word, AND the powers of the age to come.

You've got all of these "ands." These are connected. If someone has ALL of these advantages and then falls away--it's not one, it's not the other, it's all of them.

Let's go through and let's examine this actually piece by piece. Let's begin from the case of those who have once been enlightened, okay?

Those who have once been enlightened. Those whose eyes and minds were not blinded to truth. Jonathan, let's go to 2 Corinthians 4:3-4:

[Jonathan] (32:02 - 32:18) "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world (Satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

[Rick] (32:18 - 32:49) In this verse, you can see that our eyes have not been veiled. Remember, Jesus said, only whom my Father calls. Everybody else is in that place where they're not seeing and understanding the value of this.

When you are in the position of being able to see it, you have had a beautiful enlightenment. It's a privilege. You didn't earn it, it came to you.

It's a beautiful privilege, those who have had this privilege of their eyes and minds being open. That's where we're beginning here.

[Julie] (32:49 - 33:28) Let's pause on Hebrews 6 for just a second, and let me go to John 10:27-29, because here's another argument for the "once saved, always saved." It says, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."

Some argue--obviously this is Jesus speaking--that because Jesus gives this eternal life, no one can snatch them out. It will be unable to be lost.

[Jonathan] (33:29 - 34:08) But eternal life describes the kind of life God offers, not an automatic guarantee that a believer can't walk away from it. Our reward can be lost. We know this because of Revelation 3:11-12:

"I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of my God..."

"Hold fast." Don't let go. Keep hold of it with all your strength. Why?

Because there are repercussions if you let go.

[Rick] (34:09 - 34:52) That simply means that something can be lost. Your crown, that glory, can be lost. It's interesting, because Julie, you brought this argument out from John 10:27-29, and these are the words of Jesus.

We take those words very seriously, especially because of the words of Jesus. Well Jonathan, the Scripture you read in Revelation 3:11-12, are also the words of Jesus. Jesus is not going to contradict himself.

The glorified Jesus is going to say, "hold fast," don't let anybody take it, because it can be lost. We need to recognize that and accept it, because Jesus our Lord told us it can be lost. Hold on tightly.

[Julie] (34:52 - 35:07) "Hold fast what you have, so no one will take your crown." Having that crown means you were called and accepted, but it's really like having a crown reserved for you. It's been pledged to reserve a crown for you. You can forfeit your reserved crown and it will go to someone else.

[Rick] (35:07 - 35:43) We've got this beautiful, beautiful gift of enlightenment. Then it says, if you've been given that gift of enlightenment and something else to add to it and have tasted of the heavenly gift. What might this be referring to? Those who've had God's blessing and favor made manifest to them, so that they sought to do His will in His way from their hearts. They're looking, because now they've tasted the heavenly gift.

You know when you taste something that's really, really good, what do you do? You want more. Just give me more.

This is where our hearts and minds go. We want more. Here's what happens in this experience; let's look at Romans 5:1-2:

[Jonathan] (35:43 - 35:45) "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God." Oh, how we look forward to seeing the glory of God in the future!

[Rick] (36:05 - 37:01) It's showing us being made right before God, because we are justified by faith. Having tasted of the heavenly gift is tasting the being made right in God's eyes.

He doesn't see us now as sinners. He sees us as followers of Christ. He sees us, Jonathan, as you mentioned, as that "new creation."

He sees us on a higher level. We've gotten this enlightenment and tasted of this heavenly gift, and there's more. Now attached to that--this is describing people who have these things, Christians who have all of these things--AND have been made partakers of the holy spirit,

AND, meaning, having been redeemed by Jesus, these are now seen in the light of Jesus' righteousness and have God's spirit working in them; God's power and influence working in them as their guide, showing them how to work, how to live, how to think, what to do. Let's look at 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22:

[Jonathan] (37:01 - 37:03) "Do not quench the spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully; hold fast (don't let go!) to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil."

[Julie] (37:18 - 37:25) "Do not quench the spirit," meaning don't extinguish it. Paul's talking to Christians who obviously already have God's spirit.

[Jonathan] (37:25 - 37:28) Paul follows this warning with two commands; "hold fast to that which is good" and "abstain from every form of evil." These are responsibilities. Nothing external can take the spirit away, but we can let go of it by neglect, by compromise, or by walking away from the narrow path of sacrifice.

[Julie] (37:45 - 37:50) We can essentially put out the flame that God ignited within us.

[Rick] (37:55 - 38:34) Our free will has a voice. Throughout our entire Christian life, that free will can speak up at any time. It's our responsibility to respond to that free will with "thus saith the Lord." Remember when Jesus was faced with Satan in the wilderness, and Satan had the temptations?

What did Jesus do? He always went back to Scripture. He always said, "But the Lord says..."

"God's word says..." That's what this is saying. Don't quench the spirit.

Don't put out. The word "quench" literally means "to extinguish." When we look at this, it's telling us that the spirit can be extinguished.

We have to be very careful to understand that, and have great respect for that and then live accordingly.

[Julie] (38:35 - 39:32) Let me bring up another Scripture, 1 John 2:19. This is a very specific circumstance: "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." We've been saying that Christians can lose their salvation because of the free will. They can habitually, willfully sin, and they can even change their minds and outright deny the faith.

This argument here goes that a true spirit begotten Christian will not live in continual unrepentant sin. Anyone who departs from the faith, that proves that they were never really saved. It's a little circuitous.

Regarding that phrase "they went out from us, but they were not really of us"-- if they were true Christians, they would have remained. So, any who follow the way were never saved in the first place.

This is kind of a default argument used a lot if someone leaves the faith.

[Jonathan] (39:33 - 40:28) Let's go to the context. John isn't talking about ordinary Christians who stumble and sin. He's talking about outsiders who actively oppose Christ and deliberately deceive the church.

These are "wolves in sheep's clothing." Let's read the previous verse, 1 John 2:18" "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared;

from this we know that it is the last hour." The Greek prefix "anti-" means "in place of," not merely against. An "antichristos" is someone who sets himself in place of Christ and therefore becomes his opponent. (Editor's Note: The Greek prefix "anti" primarily means "opposite" or "instead of." In the context of "anitchristos," John is describing those who stand in opposition to the true Christ--individuals whose teachings or claims place them instead of Christ and therefore against him. In John's day, there were already many who positioned themselves as "opposites" to the true Christian message, which is why he said that many antichrists had arisen.)

These aren't Christians who are weak or confused. These are people who are hostile opponents of Christ. They left because they were never, not at all, a part of the true brotherhood.

[Rick] (40:29 - 41:05) That's the real point. Again, Julie, the argument was, well, they're not really of us. You take that and you build an argument. But folks, if we're going to build an argument by quoting a Scripture, let's quote it in its context.

Let's put it where it belongs, because the context is clearly focusing on those who are outsiders coming in to take advantage of. We can't mix the two. Let's make sure we let the Scriptures do the teaching and we do the learning instead of we take the Scriptures to try to buttress an argument that does not agree with the Scriptures.

[Julie] (41:05 - 41:25) If I was going to summarize and close this argument, John's describing a specific circumstance of deceivers and enemies of Christ, not spirit-begotten Christians who tragically fall away. This passage shouldn't be quoted. It has nothing to do with our question that we're dealing with of whether a true spirit-begotten Christian can abandon their calling.

[Rick] (41:25 - 41:28) Right, and that's the point. What's my favorite word, you guys?

[Julie] (41:28 - 41:29) Context!

[Jonathan] (41:29 - 41:29) Context!

[Julie] (41:30 - 41:30) I know this one.

[Rick] (41:30 - 42:35) That's right, that's right. Take it in context. We've got these verses, and as we look at the context, this was about having been made partakers of the holy spirit.

On top of being "partakers of the holy spirit," Hebrews 6:4-6 continues, and says, "...and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come..." So you see, all of these things are these incredible blessings and opportunities and privileges, one piled on top of another. It's showing a great, great progress in the way of Christ.

What does it mean to "have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come"? It's those who have experienced forgiveness of sins and the profound blessings of being restored to God's favor as sons. Sonship for the world of mankind was lost when Adam sinned.

Jesus tells us to call our Father, "Father." We're restored to a level of sonship that is above and beyond anything that humanity has ever seen until Jesus. Let's look at 1 Peter 2:3-5:

[Jonathan] (42:36 - 43:04) "If you have tasted the kindness of the Lord. And coming to him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." The question is, what are we doing with the opportunity we've been given?

[Rick] (43:04 - 44:58) What this is saying--this Scripture in 1 Peter--you are a "spiritual house...to offer up spiritual sacrifices." What "spiritual sacrifices"? Remember Romans 12:1?

"I beseech you, brethren, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, which is your spiritual service of worship." That's the spiritual sacrifice, sacrificing ourselves. This is what we received, this privilege.

You say, how is sacrificing yourself a privilege? That's what Jesus did. Aren't we privileged to walk in his footsteps?

That's what Jesus did. You've got all of these wonderful opportunities and gifts and beauty and privilege given to us by God through Christ. Now, if, after all of these blessings--and remember, they're all combined--all of these blessings and leadings and experiences, after all of these things, Hebrews 6:6 says, "and then have fallen away."

You have someone who's received all of these things, and it says, "and then have fallen away." Then it says, "it is impossible..." Pause right there.

"It is impossible." Can one lose salvation? Looking at this argument, looking up at the Apostle Paul saying, you can see how this unfolds.

"...it is impossible to renew them again to repentance..." Why? "...since they again crucify to themselves the son of God and put him to open shame."

This is a very sad end result of having been given wonderful opportunities and gifts and essentially saying, no thank you, I don't want it, I don't like it, I don't need it, and walking away. That's what the Apostle Paul is describing. We feel the depths of sadness caused by the free will choices of one who abandoned Christ.

That's what we're feeling here. Now, let's dig in and see what that really looks like. Hebrews 10:29-30:

[Jonathan] (44:58 - 45:24) "How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified (meaning spirit-begotten), and has insulted the spirit of grace?

For we know Him who said, VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY. And again, THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."

[Julie] (45:24 - 46:22) This is a really sad situation, and this is elsewhere described as the sin leading to death. 1 John 5:16-17 says, "If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death;

I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death." We get a lot of listeners that write in, and they commit some sort of sin and they are so distraught because they feel that they have committed this sin leading to death, this horrible sin.

We tell them often, if you're upset about this, you probably haven't committed that sin because you are still in the game. You are still picking yourself up. You are repentant.

You are wanting to do better. That's not this person. This is someone who has trampled the blood of Christ.

They have rejected it. What happens to a former Christian like this?

[Rick] (46:22 - 46:29) Someone who has had all of these gifts, one piled on top of the other ...

[Julie] (46:29 - 46:32) And, and, and, and...

[Rick] (46:32 - 46:33) ...and walks away.

[Julie] (46:34 - 46:40) ...and walks away.

[Rick] (46:40 - 47:45) It says "it is impossible to renew them again to repentance." Jesus died for them. His sacrifice was given to them, and they were raised to a life, to a new creation--2 Corinthians 5:17--raised to this new creation because they were rescued from death and Adam. If we forfeit that by our choices, by that willful sin, there are no more sacrifices left.

Jesus isn't going to die for you again. That's what's called the second death. You got to think, what is the second death?

"As an Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive." We were raised from the death in Adam, but then we choose to not be obedient, and then we die. That means where our life is extinguished.

It's dark. It's done. It's over.

There's no consciousness. It's just you go out of existence, and it is a hard thing to get your head around. Julie, I appreciate what you said--

if you are worried about it and you're fighting it, you're not in that place. But the key is--folks, listen to me carefully--the key here is to get up, to ask for forgiveness, and to walk away from the sin. Don't entertain it.

Walk away. That's how we avoid all of this.

[Julie] (47:45 - 48:16) Let me add one more common argument for the "once saved, always saved." Remember when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about being born again in John 3:3-7 and I'll just read verse 3: "...unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Nicodemus took Jesus literally and says a person can't be born a second time. Many Christians argue that if Jesus says we must be "born again," a birth is final and irreversible. You can't be unborn.

Therefore, if you're born again, salvation can't be lost.

[Jonathan] (48:17 - 48:51) Jesus does say we must be born again, but the Greek word he uses is gennaō, which means to beget or to conceive, not "to give birth." (Editor's Note: The Greek word Jesus uses in John 3 is "gennao," a verb that can mean "to beget," "to give birth," or "to be born," depending on context. In this passage, Jesus is using the male sense of the word--begetting--to describe the beginning of spiritual life. Just as human life begins with begetting before birth, spiritual life begins when God begets us by His spirit. This is why Nicodemus' confusion about literal birth shows Jesus is speaking of a spiritual begetting now, with the full "birth" into spirit life occurring at the resurrection.) Nicodemus' confusion shows Jesus is talking about a spiritual conception, not a complete birth. A conceived life is real and precious, but it can tragically die before birth.

Spirit-begettal happens now, when God's spirit begins its work in us. Spirit birth happens at the resurrection, when we are fully transformed into spirit beings.

[Rick] (48:51 - 49:06) That's what we were talking about earlier in those verses, about the down payment. The begettal is the down payment, the birth is the glorification. We've got to see things in the order that the Scriptures tell us it belongs.

[Julie] (49:07 - 49:13) We're "begotten" now, we're not born now. "You can't be unborn" argument really collapses because it's based on a mistranslation.

[Rick] (49:14 - 49:53) Absolutely, absolutely. Look, we've talked about a lot of things that frankly feel kind of depressing. One of the things you look at and say, man, you know, do I even stand a chance,

because we're talking about all these difficulties, and the answer is yes! Yes, because you are in Christ, you're begotten by the spirit, you've been given blessings, you've been given forgiveness. One of the things we need though is, we need to be working together.

No wonder the Scriptures implore us to be engaged with one another. Folks, that's why it's called the body of Christ, because you're to be engaged with one another to support and build each other up in Christ. This is how we do it. Let's look at Galatians 6:1-5.

[Jonathan] (49:53 - 49:55) "Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. For each one will bear his own load."

[Rick] (50:27 - 51:10) The concept in Galatians 6:1-5 is step up and step out on behalf of the brotherhood. We are imperfect, we will fall, we will make mistakes, we will sin, and it's imperative that we work through those things as best as we can. Think about how much stronger our work can be when somebody reaches their hand out and says, "Here, let me give you a hand..." and pulls you up and helps you to walk.

That's how we can do this. It's not lost, it's not too big, it's not too much, it's just enough for us to learn to grow in maturity in Christ.

[Julie] (51:11 - 51:47) We've tried to find every Scripture that could be used to say that Christians could not lose their salvation, and we have one more to present to you; Jude 1:24: "Now to HIm who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy." Jude says God is able to keep Christians from stumbling, and "to present them blameless."

If God's able to keep us from falling, salvation can't be lost, says the argument. God's power guarantees our perseverance.

[Rick] (51:47 - 51:53) Okay, that's the argument. Like every other argument...

[Julie] (51:53 - 51:54) Uh-oh, you're going to say "context."

[Rick] (51:55 - 52:21) Yes I am. Yes I am. Why?

Because it's there. Because when we take a phrase and build a doctrine out of a phrase, we're not following God's word, His will, and His way. Let's look at the context.

Let's look at the verses immediately preceding this powerful proclamation, and see what they say. Jonathan, Jude 1:21-24.

[Jonathan] (52:21 - 53:02) Listen for all of the active responsibilities on our part as I read this: "Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire (meaning pulling them away from the influence and snares of the adversary--

we are our brother's keeper, aren't we?); and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy."

[Rick] (53:02 - 53:50) When it says He's able to "make you stand" and "keep you from stumbling," look at the activity, Jonathan, that you mentioned. Keep yourselves "waiting anxiously," "have mercy on some," "save others, and on some have mercy with fear," pulling them out of the danger. This is an active process of growing.

We are not given God's spirit because we are fully grown. We are given God's spirit because we can be babies, and we need to learn to grow up in Christ. The whole point is to become mature, and as Scripture--and I don't have the text, but the Apostle Paul says, "so that we can become a mature man."

All of us can contribute to becoming the body of Christ because we follow our head. That's what this is talking about.

[Julie] (53:50 - 53:58) God is fully able to keep us from stumbling, but we have to keep ourselves in His love, we have to be active. His power doesn't override our choices.

[Rick] (53:59 - 54:21) Absolutely not. Never has, never will. Understand that's our heavenly Father in His wisdom.

What this means is we need to be fully engaged. Our full engagement provokes us to let go of all that we used to be, all that we used to do, all that we used to hope for, and press forward. Jonathan, let's go to Philippians 3:13-14:

[Jonathan] (54:22 - 54:37) "Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."

[Rick] (54:38 - 56:42) Now think about this as our final Scripture. "Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet." This is the Apostle Paul.

He has been preaching for twenty-five years, thirty years, whatever it is, and he says, "I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet." I haven't finished the work of growing that I need to do. Therefore, I forget what was behind and I press toward what lies ahead toward the prize of this high calling.

That is what our lives are called to be. That's why, yes, we can lose our salvation, but however, there is so much in place to protect us and to guide us and to give us strength and to give us encouragement. In God's will, we do it through prayer, we do it through work, we are fellow soldiers in Christ.

You can go on and on and on with all of the pictures. The bottom line for Salvation and Sacrificial Commitment is this: Let us each run towards this prize with all our energy, and as we run, let's encourage all of our brothers and sisters toward Christlikeness!

It comes down to making sure we are not about ourselves, but we are about the body. Romans 12 says: "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect." Our salvation is a free gift.

It's given to us, and through God's spirit, we're given the ability to grow and become strong in Christ and to help others grow along with us. We need to be aware that we can lose that gift when we don't apply ourselves and we go backwards and we give it away. But know this, it cannot be taken.

It has to be given away. Stand strong in Christ, period. Think about it.

Coming up in our next episode: "What Does it Mean to be Baptized Into Christ's Death?"

Final Notes: copyright @2026 Christian Questions. In addition to this transcript, we provide comprehensive CQ Rewind Show Notes for every episode. They include every scripture quoted during the podcast, as well as graphics, illustrations and bonus material. Click the "CQ Rewind Show Notes" button near the audio player or sign up to receive these weekly at ChristianQuestions.com. This transcript was created using artificial intelligence. While we believe it to be accurate, we apologize for any errors that may exist.