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[Announcer] (0:01 - 0:17) Think about the Bible like you never have before. You're listening to Christian Questions. Access more audio, videos, and Bible study resources at ChristianQuestions.com.

Our topic is: "What Is The Balance Between Pride And Humility?" Here's Rick and Jonathan.

[Rick] (0:20 - 0:27) Welcome, everyone. I'm Rick. I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over twenty-five years.

Jonathan, what's our theme Scripture for this episode?

[Jonathan] (0:27 - 0:39) Matthew 23:11-12: "But the greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted."

[Rick] (0:39 - 1:53) Jesus emphatically taught us that personal humility is a primary ingredient in this life of anyone professing to be his disciple. His own humble example was an unmistakable illustration of what our lives are supposed to look like. When it came to pride, to self-exaltation, he was just as emphatic.

As we strive to understand how to apply humility and avoid pride, several questions come to the surface. First, what does true humility mean? Is it a self-deprecating behavior that renounces our ability to be or do anything good?

What about pride? Are we to never be proud of anyone or any accomplishment in our lives? As usual, when examining the Scriptures, the answers to these questions about humility and pride will all present themselves with great clarity.

Jonathan, we can ask the questions. The answer is, let's look in the Bible and let's see what it says, and let's follow what it teaches us. Let's begin with humility. As we begin with humility, we need to begin with Jesus' own example and then his own words, because you just go right to the best, positive, strongest source. Jesus' example, John 13:12-17:

[Jonathan] (1:54 - 1:57) "So when he had washed their feet, and taken his garments and reclined at the table again, he said to them, Do you know what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you. Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him. If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them."

[Rick] (2:29 - 2:46) I love that ending. "If you know these things"--great! But you're "blessed if you do them." Jonathan, we're blessed if we do them. Let's take a look at this.

According to Jesus' actions, what does humility look like?

[Jonathan] (2:47 - 3:13) What impresses me is that the son of God humbled himself to teach sinful humanity how to serve one another. Jesus, God's co-Creator, was willing to lower himself to this level. It's mind-boggling!

God's right-hand man, His beloved son, washing feet like a servant. What a beautiful demonstration of humility and love!

[Rick] (3:14 - 4:00) Absolutely. He put himself in the lowest position and the interesting thing is, nobody else put themselves in that position. It's sort of like vying for position and status, and Jesus lowered himself beneath everyone and said here, this is how you serve one another. We see the actions, and that's one of those very strong actions that we look at and say there're huge, huge life lessons here!

Now, let's go back a little bit in time, just a few weeks before this Scripture with the washing of the feet. Jesus was speaking to his disciples and to the people, and it was in the company of the scribes and the Pharisees. His words would be a pointed lesson in humility, and they were pointed towards those scribes and Pharisees.

Matthew 23:8-12:

[Jonathan] (4:00 - 4:47) "But do not be called Rabbi; for one is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for one is your Leader, that is, Christ.

But the greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted." "One is your Teacher"--Jesus.

"One is your Father"--God. "One is your Leader"--Jesus. The Pharisees took these titles upon themselves among the Israelites, but who was the Teacher, Father, and Leader of the nation of Israel?

It was God!

[Rick] (4:48 - 5:38) They're taking that position and kind of bringing it and saying, well, we'll take care of that. There is something there that really doesn't belong. It says Jesus says, "Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled..."

Remember, and the Pharisees and the Scribes, they know that he's talking about them. They know it. When you think about that...let's just introduce what this "exalting" means, and we're going to really expand this later on in the episode.

This "exalting" means "to elevate." "Whoever exalts himself" lifts himself to a higher place, "to raise to the very summit of prosperity," to put yourself in a place of dignity and honor, exalting yourself. The word for "exalt" just means to be put in that place, but Jesus is saying, if you are doing it yourself, you will be humbled.

[Jonathan] (5:38 - 5:48) Now, let's define what "humility" looks like. It means "to make low, bring low," "to have a modest opinion of oneself, or to behave in an unassuming manner."

[Rick] (5:48 - 6:29) You see the contrast between exaltation, self-exaltation, and humility. When you looked at defining humility, the question is, is there any manner of dishonesty or exaggeration in any of those definitions? Answer is no.

Humility--Jonathan, this is important, and we want to establish this and then come back to it frequently throughout the podcast-- humility is about learning to honestly assess who we are and what we are capable of, and do it in a godly manner. It's not an exaggeration--I'm useless.

It's understanding what we can be and moving forward.

[Jonathan] (6:30 - 6:32) Humility doesn't mean we have no value.

[Rick] (6:32 - 6:32) Right.

[Jonathan] (6:32 - 6:37) If our heavenly Father has called us to be disciples of Jesus, we have potential.

[Rick] (6:37 - 7:03) That's a huge point! It doesn't mean we have no value. It simply means we keep it where it belongs, and we're going to expand that as we go.

Let's look at how Jesus' own humility is explained in Scripture. These next verses, Jonathan, are very, in my mind, are very dramatic to explain what Jesus' own humility looks like. Philippians 2:5-8:

[Jonathan] (7:03 - 7:30) "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

[Rick] (7:31 - 8:44) It shows us Jesus' pre-human status, and then it explains what he did with that. It says he didn't think to be equal with God, but he was on a spiritual status alongside of Him, and yet he took that and he put it aside. Then he took the humanity he was given, and he put that aside.

He humbled himself. You can see this is what describes the humility of Jesus. Jesus knew that he was not equal with God, and was willing to be emptied of the honor that he once had with God to become human, and then he offered that very life as a ransom for Adam and, in turn, for all of humanity.

There's great humility in his greatness, and that's what makes the greatness so great. It really does. It helps us to see things in a very, very, very big way.

Now we've looked at Jesus' words to describe what humility looks like, examples of challenging those who weren't being humble, a description of his own humility. Now let's look at how Jesus explains his own humility in Matthew 11:27-30:

[Jonathan] (8:45 - 9:04) "All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows the son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the son, and anyone to whom the son wills to reveal Him." Does the fact that Jesus explained it take away anything from his humility?

[Rick] (9:04 - 9:40) He's saying, I'm the guy. He's really saying that things are handed over to me by my Father, no ones knows the Father except for the son, and the son except for the Father. He's saying, I'm the guy.

Does that take away from the humility? No, no, no, no. What he's doing is he's giving an accurate assessment of himself and the role that he was privileged to have.

He's explaining, here's where I am, and what he's going to say next becomes possible because of where he is and who he is. Let's continue with the reading of Matthew 11:28:

[Jonathan] (9:40 - 10:06) "...Come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." The word for "humble" means "humiliated in circumstances or disposition;" "as a condition, lowly, of low degree."

[Rick] (10:06 - 11:05) We saw that in the Philippians Scripture. He brought himself to a lower degree. When he says, "Come to me...for I am gentle and humble in heart," he's saying come to me because I know who I am, what I've been given, and my responsibility of what I am to give to you.

It just takes all of the stress away, and it makes him incredibly approachable. That's the ability of a very humble man describing the power that he's been given in such a way that you say, I don't have to worry about arrogance here. I can feel embraced in his presence.

We're looking at, in this first segment, Jesus. Just looking at his humility, what he said, what he did, how he's described, so we can understand a real strong foundation for what true humility is. Let's look at The Power and Balancing Effect of True Humility:

[Jonathan] (11:06 - 11:39) Just by Jesus' example, we can see that true humility means being able to see others <Correction: ourselves> for who we really are and present ourselves to others without a self-important attitude. This ability opens the door for others to feel comfortable in our presence. Rick, Jesus emptied himself going from a mighty spirit being to a human being, but we have to empty ourselves of our own wills and egos so we can be used by God.

This is a lifelong process.

[Rick] (11:39 - 12:08) It is. That's why when we're trying to understand pride and humility and how the two work together--or don't work together in so many circumstances--that's when we start with Jesus because it gives us the biggest picture of humility in action on all levels. Bottom line here is Jesus always shows us the way. Our job is to pay attention as we learn to embrace what he said and how he lived as a pattern for our own lives.

[Jonathan] (12:09 - 12:17) Jesus' example is absolutely inspiring! How do we make that example real and practical in our own lives?

[Rick] (12:17 - 13:15) The best way to follow the example of our perfect Lord Jesus is to follow the examples of those who were our original Christian teachers. They, like us, were imperfect and subject to the failures that we're subject to. Paying close attention to their experiences and their wise words will guide us as we seek to progress step by step along our discipleship path.

As we are following the perfect example of humility, it can be discouraging because it's perfect. Let's look at those who weren't perfect and say, I can relate to that. I can relate to that.

We're going to take a look at some humility lessons from our fellow Christians and they're all--guess where they're from? The Scriptures. Let's start with the first humility lesson:

Be drawn to those who are good examples of living a humble life. We get that from Romans 12:14-16:

[Jonathan] (13:15 - 13:35) "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.

Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty (or self-important) in mind, but associate with the lowly.

Do not be wise in your own estimation."

[Rick] (13:36 - 14:29) "Associate with the lowly." That word for "lowly" is "humble." Associate, be drawn to those who give you this sense of what humility looks like and what it works like. How does humility work? Find those that you can see have just a humble attitude.

Hang around with them, because their Christianity is likely going to help us to get a firmer grip on our own Christianity. That's a really good place for us to start, in our associations.

The next humility lesson from our fellow Christians: By truly and sincerely humbling ourselves after the example of Jesus, we are drawn into God's favor. Now this is a lesson that says here's what happens when you put yourself in that position.

Let's look at James 4:6-7:

[Jonathan] (14:29 - 14:50) "But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE. Submit therefore to God.

Resist the devil and he will flee from you." The devil, Satan, is identified in the Bible as the first being to possess pride. We need to flee from his influence.

[Rick] (14:51 - 15:32) In this verse it says, "God is opposed to the proud." That word for "proud" helps us to understand appearing above others, opposed to those who are really conspicuous or haughty.

The word "haughty," it's not a word we use much, but it means "self-important." It says God is opposed to those and gives grace to those who are humble, as we were talking before. This is something that this lesson is drawing us towards God's favor by really working on humility.

Now, further on this lesson, a subset of what we just talked about, some steps to bring us to a more humble life. Let's continue in James 4. Jonathan, let's go to James 4:8-9:

[Jonathan] (15:33 - 15:53) "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be miserable and mourn and weep;

let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom." Rick, this is the process of changing from self to selflessness.

[Rick] (15:54 - 17:03) It almost sounds depressing. Be miserable and mourn and weep. "Let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom."

It's like, oh my goodness, is that the way I'm supposed to live? The point is, be serious, be humble, be reverent as you look at and assess who we are, what we're doing, how we're acting, and how we're coming across to others. Come across in the way Jesus came across.

Come across in the way our best scriptural examples came across. That's what it's saying. Don't get overexcited about accolades, about people looking at you like wow, what an awesome Christian!

That's not it. This humility is a very, very different kind of a thing. God draws us to Him when He gives grace to those who are humble.

There's a powerful lesson in that. Let's go to another humility lesson from our fellow Christians. I love this one, Jonathan:

A promised result of living a humble life as a true disciple of Jesus is God lifting you up! Not you, not me, not the person down the street-- it's God lifting you up.

Simple verse, James 4:10:

[Jonathan] (17:04 - 17:09) "Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord and He will exalt you."

[Rick] (17:09 - 18:15) "He will exalt you." He lifts you up. It doesn't mean humility means there's no recognition.

On the contrary, there's a recognition that comes, but it should not come from us. It should come from however the Lord God sees fit to put you in a place where others can look at you and see something different. Just a quick side story about that.

I work in a service business and I work with a lot of other people. Several years ago, I had somebody working with us. He was a very quiet individual and he would just watch and all that.

One day he walked up to me and he said, "Rick, where do you go to church?" I said a non-denominational church and all that. I said, "Why do you ask?"

He said, "Because I want to be like you are. I want to go to church where you go." Jonathan, it wasn't a matter of trying to say, "Let me show you Jesus."

It was a matter of living righteously with integrity and kindness and clarity and trying to be wise. He saw the characteristics without a single religious word and said, I like that. That's what we want to come.

It startled me.

[Jonathan] (18:16 - 18:16) What a compliment.

[Rick] (18:17 - 18:47) Yeah.

Yeah. Again, it was something that if you're not trying to say, let me impress them with. It's, let me be like Jesus. That's really what this is really all about.

Remember, God is the one that does the lifting. That's a point we're going to keep coming back to again and again and again. The next humility lesson from our fellow Christians: Always relate to one another from the basis of equality and the attitude of service.

These are big practical lessons. 1 Peter 5:1-5:

[Jonathan] (18:48 - 19:49) Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility (or modesty) toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE." Rick, I love how it says "clothe yourselves with humility."

It should be something others can see, something that you're "wearing" that they notice and can relate to.

[Rick] (19:49 - 21:06) The way the Apostle Peter begins this, "I exhort the elders"--those who have responsibility for guiding, directing, teaching, and leading others. He's saying as a fellow elder, not as the Apostle Peter but as a fellow elder, here's what we need to do. Here's our example. He says about being an example of the flock, it's...Jonathan, there should not be a distance between those who lead and those members of the flock.

You should be among them. That's what Peter is describing. That clothing yourself with humility is exactly the point.

Be like them. Show Christlikeness in just being a part of things. It really is a very, very beautiful thing.

Again, "God gives grace to the humble." This "humiliation of mind," this looking at yourself in a very low status--such an important thing. Again, we see the same equation appearing;

humbling ourselves brings God's exaltation. We're going to see that again. We just saw it.

God gives grace to the humble. Now let's go to 1 Peter 5, the next verses. Remember in James 4, it talked about humbling yourself and God exalting you?

Peter says exactly the same thing. 1 Peter 5:6-7:

[Jonathan] (21:07 - 21:18) "Therefore, humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time, casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you."

[Rick] (21:18 - 21:36) Humble yourselves and leave the exalting alone. Just don't even think about it. Don't worry about it.

It's not your concern because we cast our care upon God, because He cares for us. Jonathan, do we need to be exalted if we know that God cares for us and is caring for us?

[Jonathan] (21:36 - 21:37) It doesn't get better than that.

[Rick] (21:37 - 22:00) Right, right. It really is... It really is that simple.

Let's go to another lesson of humility from our fellow Christians: Recognize that our humility is one of the many factors in our being called and chosen by God to follow in Jesus' footsteps. There's lots of pieces, but humility is a very large portion.

Colossians 3:2-14:

[Jonathan] (22:01 - 22:27) " So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on (or “clothe yourselves with”) a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity."

[Rick] (22:28 - 23:37) We're hearing from Peter, from James, from Paul, and they're all telling us the same things. Be a humble person. When you say put on humility, it means to be in a position where that's who you are. That's what Jesus was, in that Scripture in Philippians where he lowered himself.

He just did. We need to be able to have that same attitude as we move forward. Have a heart of compassion and kindness.

Humility is right in the middle of all this. Gentleness and patience-- all of these work better with humility.

If you're arrogant, having a heart of compassion, kindness, gentleness, and patience, eh, not so much. With humility, they flourish. That's the key.

Another humility lesson from our fellow Christians: See our fellow disciples through the lens of them "having higher value" than we do. Now, why would we do that?

Well, we do that because we can't read anyone's heart or intentions, so we need to give them the benefit of the doubt. That's a beautiful exercise, and it may not be an easy one, but Philippians 2:2-3 tells us to do this:

[Jonathan] (23:37 - 24:01) "...make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves..." The followers of Jesus are precious to our heavenly Father.

They should be precious to us as well.

[Rick] (24:01 - 24:42) That's right. If they belong to Him, they belong to us. Think about this.

When you have the utter privilege of working alongside of or living alongside of or contributing alongside of those who belong to God, think of the way that you can honor and praise Him by the way you honor and care for them. It just comes down to, they are God's children, and I get to interact with them. That's the humble spirit.

These are the lessons from those who have gone before us, who walked in Jesus' footsteps, and showed us how. Jonathan, let's go back to The Power and Balancing Effect of True Humility:

[Jonathan] (24:42 - 25:09) Our instructions for living a humility-driven life are clear. We need to see ourselves accurately and honestly without seeking praise or recognition. We are to gravitate toward our fellow disciples who demonstrate humility, view ourselves as servants who are here to help others, and look at those around us through a non-comparing filter, recognizing that we cannot read the hearts of others.

[Rick] (25:10 - 25:36) Such an important thing. Look at them without this sense of, they don't know what I know or they don't know what someone else knows, but look at them as they are God's children doing what they're capable of doing when they're capable of doing it. Humility requires a lot from us. We need to learn to embrace these requirements as coming from God through Jesus, and we need to see ourselves living this way.

[Jonathan] (25:36 - 25:47) We have seen many aspects unfolding as to what our humility is to look like. What about pride? Is there any kind of pride that is acceptable for a Christian?

[Rick] (25:47 - 26:27) The gut reaction to this is, no! There is no place for pride in the life of a Christian. However, we need to carefully unpack exactly what pride means and what it doesn't mean. Once again, the Scriptures give us very specific and strong guidance regarding how we as Christians should respond to any goodness, blessing, and accomplishments that come our way.

As we get into the context of pride, we need to understand it and see where certain things may in fact be valuable while other things are not. In this segment, Jonathan, we're going to try to begin to figure that out.

[Jonathan] (26:27 - 26:44) As we begin to look at the pride part of the conversation, we again begin with Jesus' words. In this short parable, he illustrates the fundamental value of humility as well as the value of appropriate exaltation. Luke 18:9-14: "And he also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt..."

[Rick] (26:44 - 27:23) Here's where Jesus starts the parable: "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get."

[Jonathan] (27:23 - 27:48) The parable continues, "But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me, the sinner! I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

[Rick] (27:48 - 28:44) You see the drama of how Jesus unfolds this simple little story by looking at the words and the actions of one who saw themselves as above and one who saw themselves as not even worthy. What Jesus is showing us is that when we pat ourselves on the back and we show ourselves to be exalted, we've lost. On the contrary, just trying to climb into God's favor because we are so needy, that's where being made right comes into play.

Again, Jesus says here, "he who exalts himself will be humbled." Okay? That's what's going to happen.

"And he who humbles himself will be exalted." The exaltation doesn't come from you. It doesn't come from me.

It doesn't come from the crowd. It comes from God. Comes from above, not from ourselves.

[Jonathan] (28:45 - 28:55) The Pharisees seated themselves in the seat of Moses, but they forgot that Moses was one of the meekest men on earth when God called him to lead.

[Rick] (28:55 - 29:25) That's funny, because you don't normally think about that. But Moses was the one, when God called him, Moses essentially--and I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing here--says, excuse me, God, you've got the wrong guy! I'm not your man.

I can't do that. God essentially says look, what's in your hand? I'm holding a staff.

He said, I'll use that as I use you. He <God> had to essentially show him that he was capable. You're right.

They're putting themselves in the seat without the attitude.

[Jonathan] (29:26 - 29:26) You got it.

[Rick] (29:26 - 29:56) If you have the attitude of humility and of needing God's direction, then you can be in a position of responsibility in a very reverential way.

Now we're going to look at pride. What kinds of pride are there? Do any of them belong in the character of a true disciple of Christ?

We're going to use some biblical examples and see how they fit. Let's begin with some of the more dramatic kinds of pride mentioned in Scripture. Jonathan, let's go to 1 John 2:15-17:

[Jonathan] (29:56 - 30:35) "Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.

The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever." The words "boastful pride" come from the Greek word "braggadocio," which means self-confidence and empty braggart talk. That's where we get the idea behind the English word "brag." (Editor's Note--The words "boastful pride" are defined as "braggadocio," which means self-confidence and empty braggart talk. The Greek word is "alazoneia." The English word "brag" is of uncertain origin.)

[Rick] (30:36 - 31:11) The definition of "braggadocio" sends this idea of this overly abundant self-confidence--I am so confident that it just pours out of me. That's what John calls "the boastful pride of life." He's saying these are the things that we need to be aware of to stay away from.

There's a hint right there. Let's go a little bit further. In this next Scripture, the Apostle Paul is writing about some who've rejected God and who have rejected godliness.

Here's what he's looking at as a result of that rejection. Romans 1:29-31:

[Jonathan] (31:11 - 31:14) "...being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful."

[Rick] (31:39 - 31:41) Anything else you want to add to that list while you're at it? You're on a roll.

[Jonathan] (31:42 - 31:42) That is quite the list!

[Rick] (31:43 - 32:36) Being "arrogant" means "appearing above others" or "self-important." This word for "boastful" is from the same Greek basis as the last word. It's that sense of being a braggart, of just saying, look what I can do!

Look what I've done. Look how good I am. Did you know?

Wait, wait, wait. You didn't notice... You need to see...

It's that sense of, it's all about me. The apostle is saying when we take God out of the center of our lives, the propensity to become this way begins to grow. Folks, look around the world that we're in and look at what social media does and how it's all about selfies and me. Let's think about what the Apostle Paul wrote here all those years ago.

We're seeing that unfold in a very, very, very big way. Jonathan, we're looking at this kind of braggadocio. Are these kinds of pride acceptable within Christianity?

[Jonathan] (32:37 - 32:47) No, not in the slightest! We can't go there, but we make mistakes. If we do, we should immediately go to the throne of grace and ask for forgiveness.

[Rick] (32:48 - 33:41) Glad you said that because it's so important--because we can fall, especially in the world that we're in, because it teaches us arrogance. It teaches us to be comfortable in the arrogance, in the "my truth," "my way." I am the center of my world.

With arrogance being comfortable and feeling good, it's really easy to get caught up in it. We've got to be looking to make sure that we're not getting stuck here. Let's go to another kind of pride in the New Testament.

This is the kind of pride that means--and this is an interesting definition, Jonathan--it means to "envelop with smoke; figuratively, to inflate with self-conceit." The idea of enveloping with smoke is like creating an illusion, okay? You've got something going on, but maybe it's not really what it's supposed to be.

You really can't see it for what it is. Keep that in mind as we go further.

[Jonathan] (33:42 - 34:08) Paul is describing to Timothy the qualification for elders in the true church, and this word is brought up here. 1 Timothy 3:4, 6: "He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil."

[Rick] (34:08 - 34:52) That phrase, "that he will not become conceited" is this kind of pride that says, become inflated with self-conceit. In other words, showing something that isn't really there, this overinflation of something.

It says those who are in a position of responsibility within the body of Christ, we need to be very careful, and that's why maturity comes before responsibility in Christ. That's what the lesson is here. Let's go to another verse in looking at this conceitedness, this enveloping in smoke, if you will.

Paul, in this next verse, is describing those who don't stand for the original doctrines of Christ. 1 Timothy 6:3-5:

[Jonathan] (34:52 - 35:29) "If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited (pretending to be something he’s not) and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain."

[Rick] (35:29 - 35:50) You notice how when Paul is describing these things, he like goes all out and describes. You look at these things, and that conceited approach is in the middle of all of that. It's one of the driving forces.

I'm going to ask you the question. I think I know your answer: Is this kind of pride acceptable at any time in Christianity?

[Jonathan] (35:50 - 35:59) No. This is black and white. It's black and white. None of this is godly or Christlike.

Paul's words are describing wolves who devour the flock.

[Rick] (36:00 - 36:26) Yeah, yeah. Folks, why are we going through this exercise? Because these are the descriptions of what pride looks like.

We want to be sure that we understand so that we stay far, far away. Let's look at another kind of pride. One more, one more, okay?

This one has the sense of simply raising oneself over others, becoming self-important. It's not nearly as dramatic as the previous one, so maybe we can make some space here. Let's look at 2 Corinthians 12:7-9:

[Jonathan] (36:26 - 37:15) "Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.

Most gladly, therefore, I would rather boast about my weakness, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." What a journey Paul took. Think about this--

from Saul of Tarsus to the Apostle Paul, transformed by Christ and learning to rely on him, Christ, not himself!

[Rick] (37:15 - 37:50) So when he says, this thorn in the flesh was given to me "to keep me from exalting myself," keep me from raising myself over others, to keep me from becoming self-important, the message is profoundly clear. I was given these things--it made life harder--but it was the best thing that could have possibly happened,

because it helped keep me focused on the things that were above and not the things that I could develop to make me into something I should not be. Jonathan, this kind of pride, is it ever acceptable in Christianity?

[Jonathan] (37:51 - 37:55) Absolutely not! No one is better than anyone else in Christ.

[Rick] (37:56 - 38:26) It's such an important thing. It's such a simple concept. It doesn't matter the amount of talent or ability somebody has.

You're not better. You know why? Because we're all equally sinners and

without Jesus, we are sentenced to death in Adam. We all are brought out of that, and then God uses what we are given.

That's where reverence--not pride, reverence--needs to come into play and needs to develop. Let's put this together. The Power and Balancing Effect of True Humility:

[Jonathan] (38:27 - 38:57) Our focus on true humility helps us identify and appropriately handle issues involving excessive self-confidence, outright or deceptive conceit, and the propensity to elevate ourselves above others because of the great blessings we receive. Maintaining this balance is crucial to the health of our Christian character, as we remain vulnerable to falling into the traps of Satan even as disciples of Jesus. Just ask the Apostle Paul!

[Rick] (38:58 - 39:22) That's right. "To keep me from exalting myself," he said, I needed outside help. Thank God He provided the trial of that outside help.

That really helps to put this all in order. The proverb that tells us "pride comes before destruction" is a powerful message for any and every Christian who walks in Jesus' footsteps!

[Jonathan] (39:23 - 39:32) These examples of the dangers of pride are really eye-opening. Is there any kind of pride at all that is considered acceptable within true Christianity?

[Rick] (39:32 - 40:22) We keep looking, we keep looking. We want to be careful as we answer this. The Apostle Paul does give examples of satisfaction with accomplishments that are acceptable.

The key here is to understand what these examples show us and what they mean regarding how we look at ourselves and how we look at others. Now we're going to take a different look at pride and see how that unfolds, because there are some things that are acceptable. Here we need to be very, very, very focused on meanings and application according to what Paul is going to be teaching us.

Here's the first question, Jonathan. We're going to ask you to read from Philippians 4:9-13. As you read these, are these next verses an example of arrogance or are they an example of leadership?

[Jonathan] (40:23 - 40:33) Leadership. Notice the guidance and encouragement that accompanies the strong direction. Let's read some selected verses from Philippians 4:9-13: "The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you. But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly...I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am. I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me."

[Rick] (41:06 - 42:12) At the beginning of these verses, the Apostle Paul says, the things you've seen and received and heard from me, these are things that you need to do. You can look at it and say that's pretty arrogant. No, no, no.

What it is, is, he's showing us through his example, because he explains his example. I know what it's like to have nothing. I know what it's like to be starving.

I know what it's like to be imprisoned. I know what it's like to have things going well. The bottom line of all of it is to follow Jesus' footsteps.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. He's showing us leadership. There is no arrogance because that's how he can say, follow me as I follow Christ.

Don't follow me--only as I follow Christ. Let's go further now. Another verse--and here's where we're going to get into a kind of potential pride that actually does have acceptability.

Let's pay close attention here. Paul in this next verse is going to tell us when boasting is appropriate. I mean, wait, what?

[Jonathan] (42:12 - 42:13) What did you say? Really?

[Rick] (42:15 - 42:20) Yeah, yeah... Let's watch this concept unfold.

1 Corinthians 1:26-31:

[Jonathan] (42:21 - 43:08) "For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are (why did God call the weak?

Here's the answer), so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

[Rick] (43:08 - 43:11) So there is an appropriate boasting!

[Jonathan] (43:11 - 43:13) You were right. That one's a good one, brother.

[Rick] (43:14 - 44:07) Yes, that one is good. He puts all of these other things together to say, look, here are the facts. Face the facts.

Most of you are not the cream of the crop of the world. Why? Because God is not looking for those who will boast in themselves, but He is looking for them who will give glory to God.

That word for "boast" actually means to glory in something, to glory on account of something, to look at it and say, this is awesome. He's saying we shouldn't be looking at ourselves and saying, I'm awesome. But God's glory, God's providence, God's direction, God's wisdom, God's spirit, that is what's awesome.

It's interesting because when he says, "...just as it is written, let him who boasts, boast in the Lord," he's actually quoting. Paul's quoting from Jeremiah about how and when to boast. Let's go back to the original source on that. This is Jeremiah 9:23-24:

[Jonathan] (44:07 - 44:53) "Thus says the LORD, Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches; but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things, declares the LORD."

Boasting in God and Jesus is appropriate because of all they have done for us. The word "boast" is defined as shining, boasting, celebrating, or exulting. It should ALWAYS be based on glorifying God!

If it expresses appreciation for the recognition of God's goodness, then it's appropriate.

[Rick] (44:53 - 45:55) God's goodness can show up in our lives, and it is appropriate to not just recognize it but to draw attention to that, because it's from Him, and that's the key. That's the whole key to this idea of, well, can I appreciate good things? Yes, we can, and this is how.

Jonathan, we're going to go through several more Scriptures where the Apostle Paul talks about boasting. In doing the study for this particular podcast, I'm looking and saying wow, he talks about boasting a lot! There's a lot of pieces to how this works, and after looking at all over and putting it in order, okay, he's actually teaching us how to do this in a reverential, humble manner. Let's go now to how does the Apostle Paul personally apply this boasting thing that we've just been talking about.

What he's going to say in these next verses is, we are to exult or boast in the hope of God, and we are to boast in our trials. That's what he says in Romans 5:1-5:

[Jonathan] (45:55 - 46:32) Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulations bring about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the holy spirit which is given to us."

[Rick] (46:32 - 47:33) That's the same word for "boast;" to "exult" in the hope of the glory of God, to "exult" in tribulations. Just like Paul said, "lest I be exalted beyond measure," the exaltation comes in God's presence in our broken experiences. We can say, God is with me.

Look, people will look at you crazy when you're like, so what are you saying about your difficult experiences? You're content with them? Yes.

Why? Why would you be? Because I have God's guidance walking me through this.

God doesn't promise to take it away; He promises to walk us through. With humility, we can walk through that, and we can exult in those tribulations because we're following Him.

There's an appropriate "boasting." All right, next verses; how do we understand the Apostle Paul's "boasting" or "exulting" in these next verses?

2 Corinthians 10:8, 12-13:

[Jonathan] (47:33 - 48:01) "For even if I boast somewhat further about our authority, which the Lord gave for building you up and not for destroying you...For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves...But we will not boast beyond our measure, but within the measure of the sphere which God apportioned to us as a measure, to reach even as far as you." Rick, this is a tough one. What is he saying?

[Rick] (48:02 - 49:20) The Corinthians were having troubles staying with the truth, and Paul is writing to them to get them on the right path. They had external influences that were guiding them inappropriately.

He's saying look, if I have to show you my authority, I'm going to show it to you. That's where he's talking about boasting. But he's saying, I am not going to show you anything beyond what's actually been given to me.

In other words, I'm not going to borrow somebody else's accomplishments or recognition or anything to draw to me. I'm going to say, within what God has given me to guide you, I'm going to remind you because you're going off the track. You need to be drawn back,

and because I've been given responsibility, I will exult or boast in that so I can bring you to Christlikeness. That's what he's talking about here. In his "boasting," Paul is fulfilling his responsibilities of leadership.

He's urging the Corinthians to follow what has come from God through Christ and not to follow anything else! He's saying, remember me? Remember how you and I worked together and got this started?

Come back to your roots. That's what he's saying. Let's continue with 2 Corinthians 10:15-18:

[Jonathan] (49:20 - 49:51) "...not boasting beyond our measure, that is, in other men's labors, but with the hope that as your faith grows, we will be, within our sphere, enlarged even more by you, so as to preach the gospel even to the regions beyond you, and not to boast in what has been accomplished in the sphere of another. But HE WHO BOASTS IS TO BOAST IN THE LORD. For it is not he who commends himself that is approved, but he whom the Lord commends."

[Rick] (49:51 - 50:30) That is the key of this whole thing. You notice how many times he says the word "boast?" He's saying, please come back to me.

We were working together. You've gotten off track. I need you to come back to the basis, the fundamentals of your Christianity.

He says, "It is not he who commends himself that is approved, but he whom the Lord commends." God has sent me to you.

That's what he's saying. It's interesting that Paul again quotes Jeremiah here-- "He who boasts is to boast in the Lord."

This shows us the clear grounding of how to properly have this exaltation. It really is very, very powerful.

[Jonathan] (50:31 - 51:03) Appreciating God's blessings in our lives is a good thing. We should use the talents we've been given. One of the talents God helped me to develop is being a harmony man.

Musically, I learned how to enhance a lead vocalist with subtle harmonies that bring out the best in them. My goal was to encourage and motivate them to be even better than they could be on their own, helping them shine even brighter. Over time, God showed me how to apply that same ability to encourage and support my Christian brethren in their service to Him.

[Rick] (51:04 - 52:12) That's such an important thing because everybody is not the one who's out in front. For those of us who are in front, what you need are those behind giving you everything that is really important to, like you said, expand beyond what you're capable of. That's why Jesus sent the apostles out and all of his followers out two by two.

They could supplement and balance and complement each other in their abilities and so forth. They could recognize and the two would be greater than one plus one. That's what you're talking about.

It's a powerful, powerful lesson for all of us. This is it. This is it.

The greatest example of appropriate exaltation in all of history, all of history, is focused on Jesus. He humbles himself further than any being in God's entire creation for the sake of God's will to be done. He was later rewarded with the greatest exaltation that God's entire creation would ever see.

Greatest humility to greatest exaltation. Philippians 2:8-11:

[Jonathan] (52:13 - 52:53) "Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

This is the only place in the New Testament where the words "highly exalted" are used. This means to elevate above others. That is raised to the highest position.

[Rick] (52:54 - 53:30) How did that happen? Jesus didn't do that! What he did was the will of his Father.

No matter what the cost, no matter what the circumstance, no matter what level of humility was required, he did that and the exaltation came from God. That is THE lesson of pride and humility. Look at Jesus, the greatest example of humility and the greatest exaltation God's creation has ever seen.

Let's wrap this up. The Power and Balancing Effect of True Humility:

[Jonathan] (53:31 - 54:04) Focusing on true humility is a necessary foundation for keeping our lives in perspective. Though the equation is simple, it is challenging to fulfill. Humility requires us to assess ourselves accurately, avoiding judging others, and leave any exaltation to God.

While we need to recognize and cherish our responsibilities and talents and exercise the necessary authority to fulfill them, we must do so by humbly and reverently applying ourselves--all to the glory of God!

[Rick] (54:04 - 54:38) That really is the key, to apply ourselves all to the glory of God. If we can apply ourselves with that humble assessment, understanding who we are, what we've been given and reverentially recognizing it and using it, that can put us in a position of great, great ability to exult in God's providence in our lives. Let's exult in that and nothing else!

Think about it. Coming up in our next episode: "Do I Ever Mix My Christianity With Paganism?"

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