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[Announcer] (0:01 - 0:17) Think about the Bible like you never have before. You're listening to Christian Questions. Access more audio, videos, and Bible study resources at ChristianQuestions.com.

Our topic is: "Can Death and Hope Actually Work Together?" Here's Rick and Jonathan.

[Rick] (0:20 - 0:28) Welcome, everyone. I'm Rick. I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over twenty-five years.

Jonathan, what's our theme Scripture for this episode?

[Jonathan] (0:29 - 0:40) John 12:24: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."

[Rick] (0:41 - 2:06) When we look at the world around us and the powerful influences of darkness and evil that dominate it, we can easily get discouraged. Why would God allow so much to be so wrong for so long? Thinking about faith is helpful, but it doesn't alleviate the nagging questions about how darkness and sin seem to always be winning.

So, what if? What if we apply our faith to a broader perspective and look at the world's history as the beginning of an eternal plan for all of humanity? What if we mark specific cycles of this history as steps that God is having His human family take?

What if each step in God's plan after Adam and Eve were created is marked by a death, and that death would bring the seeds of renewal and hope for the next step? What if this process shows us the mind, power, love, and mercy of God? What if?

Think about that as we go through this. Jonathan, we've got to set the groundwork here. What's the basis for our looking at our dreadful world in this way?

I think the basis is really easily stated, and this is, we're looking at it through God's own words that describe His character and His foresight!

[Jonathan] (2:07 - 3:21) First, He knows the end from the beginning, and He has a purpose. Isaiah 46:9-10: "...For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure."

So God's got this, and His good pleasure will happen! Second, He is above us, and His words are guarantees of what will come to pass. Isaiah 55:9-11: "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.

For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return there without watering the earth and making it bear and sprout, and furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; it will not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."

[Rick] (3:21 - 4:19) Those two Scriptures in Isaiah give us the sense that God knows the end from the beginning, He has a purpose, and that His words and His ways are a guarantee of what comes to pass. I love in that second Scripture, Jonathan, that you just read. He describes His words as the rain and snow that come down from heaven. Why?

Because they have a purpose, to water the earth so it can bring forth and sprout. He says, My word is the same way. It comes down to earth so it can water My human family so it can grow and sprout.

God is essentially saying that cycles of nature are My signature to remind you that I have a plan. There is a process that has to be gone through. We want to lay this out knowing that, with our "what if" thinking.

"What if" we start at the beginning, okay? Before there was death, there was life-- perfect, harmonious human life. We all know the account, but let's go back to it; Genesis 2:8-9:

[Jonathan] (4:19 - 4:24) "The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

[Rick] (4:43 - 5:06) God set it up, all is good, all is perfect, all is harmonious. Now we're saying that God's intention is very broad and very beautiful.

Everything is supplied. You've got this beautiful place. That's His intention.

Of course, things don't always end up going the way that it is intentioned at the beginning. Sometimes it takes time to get there. Let's go to the part where man becomes a part of this intentionality of God. Genesis 2:16-17:

[Jonathan] (5:07 - 5:14) "The LORD God commanded the man, saying, From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die (KJV: Dying thou shalt die!)." What happened? Adam and Eve sinned and were sentenced to a life that would ultimately end in death. The sentence was a life that would degrade itself until death took them.

[Rick] (5:40 - 6:16) Yeah, dying you shall die. You have God's perfect intention and perfect preparation, but then sin enters and you say, oh, messed up God's whole plan. Now what?

Hang on. We've got to go with the "what if." We've got to go with God's ability to have foresight.

Let's go a little bit further here. With this sentence of death--now remember, they're not dead yet, but they are beginning the process of dying-- with the sentence of death came an actual death.

It was a sacrifice to cover their recognition of their own sins. Let's look at Genesis 3:21:

[Jonathan] (6:16 - 6:18) "The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them." The death of an animal was the first recorded death in the Bible. It was sacrificed to provide a covering for sin. Because Adam had named all the animals in the garden and cared deeply for them, witnessing death for the first time must have been traumatic.

[Rick] (6:42 - 7:26) It would have been a real, real wake-up call to, wait a minute,

what is happening here?! Because it was completely contrary. Sin creates a completely contrary environment.

Now, when you look at God and His wisdom, like we read in those Isaiah Scriptures, you say, how is He going to make up for this? The answer is He knew ahead of time. The answer is He had a plan in place because He knows the nature of free will.

We look at this, and that death that you were talking about with that animal was the beginning of life in a sinful state. That's what it symbolized. Adam and Eve's environment would change, and they needed to be covered.

Let's look at Genesis 3:22-23:

[Jonathan] (7:26 - 7:45) "Then the LORD God said, Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever— therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken."

[Rick] (7:45 - 8:56) God didn't abandon him, but God took him from the preparation to say the cost of sin is, now you need to do your own preparation. You need to work the ground. You need to be part of that whole scenario.

Of course, through sweat, you're going to have to do all of this. These were the consequences. Now we went from that perfect, beautiful paradise to shambles.

Things have fallen apart. God's got this in control, but it doesn't look good in the moment. This downward trend would unfold.

As time progressed--now we're going to jump ahead-- as time progressed, even spirit beings--I mean spirit beings that dwelt in the presence of God--even spirit beings would follow Satan's lead and become involved in this cycle of putting self before God. That's what Lucifer did.

He became Satan. "I will be like the Most High." He had these other spirit beings following him in this,

and even Adam and Eve ended up sinning along those lines. Here's what happens in that context, many, many, many, many years after Adam and Eve; Genesis 6:1-3:

[Jonathan] (8:57 - 9:11) "Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful..." The sons of God here refers to fallen spirit beings. Let's continue: "...and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, My spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." God allowed the fallen spirit beings to interfere with humanity—but only for a limited time.

[Rick] (9:21 - 10:16) There was a dramatic misstep, a dramatic intentionality towards sin and darkness. God basically said, this will stop because this is outside of the realm of what creation was designed to look like. Dealing with disobedience, that's one thing. Creating a hybrid race not created by God, that's another thing.

We have this really deep, dark situation unfolding. All of this activity by these fallen spirit beings, this corrupted activity by them, added to dramatically corrupting people. They were already corrupted, but this was a major addition.

Here's what we get; Genesis 6:11-12:

[Jonathan] (10:17 - 10:27) "Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth."

[Rick] (10:28 - 11:04) All flesh had corrupted their way on the earth and God said, I will no longer abide all of this, and the Flood came. God arranged for that Flood and there is death. We were talking about this concept of death and renewal and here comes death through this Flood.

This would be the end of an age. This would be the end of a massive period of time and it ended in death and it sounds so depressing to think about it. However, in the midst of all of the death and destruction, there was hope.

Let's jump to the New Testament to get a sense of looking at both parts of that. 2 Peter 2:4-5:

[Jonathan] (11:04 - 11:07) "For God did not spare angels (this is the fallen spirits) when they had sinned, but hurling them down to Tartarus consigned them to caves of darkness, keeping them in readiness for judgement. And He did not spare the ancient world, although He preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a deluge on the world of the ungodly." The Flood brought massive death and destruction to man and beast. This marked the end of an era and brought about a profound change. But all was not lost.

[Rick] (11:42 - 12:13) That's right, because He "preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness."

Through this very depressing, dark time, there is that thread of hope pictured in Noah, the one individual that would be carrying righteousness. Let's sum this up. We're going to come back to this death part at the beginning of the next segment, but let's sum this up at this point because we've got this age of time from Adam all the way to Noah and we see a lot of things happening here. Jonathan, Death, Renewal, Hope and God's Plan:

[Jonathan] (12:13 - 12:17) Death is rightfully seen as a stark reminder of an ending and is usually viewed with sadness. We should rightfully embrace this view, though NOT without also embracing it through God's eyes, as He sees it as an opportunity for new beginnings. Let us be open to seeing just how God's plan, in a step-by-step fashion, always brings renewal after death, bringing hope and the beginning of a new age. The genealogies in Genesis clearly establish that the timeline from Adam’s creation to the Flood was a total of 1,656 years.

[Rick] (12:59 - 13:48) We have this long period of time where you had beautiful life, sin enter and then corruption, and the corruption got deeper and deeper, and then you have this ending with death with a very dramatic large-scale death. In the midst of all of that, there is this thread, this tiny thread of hope, and his name is Noah.

He and his family, the other seven, were spared so that all was not lost, so that there was the opportunity for renewal to come a little bit later. This can be a hard concept to follow as we need to keep God's perspective of time and eternity clear in our minds, when we want immediate results.

[Jonathan] (13:49 - 13:57) The death at the end of that first age was dramatic! Can we expect the renewal of the next age to be just as dramatic?

[Rick] (13:58 - 14:51) That's a good question. While having a dramatic renewal would be glorious for our human minds, we need to recognize that God's plans always work through small beginnings, always through small beginnings. We need to look for what God will do with the renewal, and we need to look for who will carry its message. Remember, whenever there's any major shift in how God's plan is being fulfilled that is marked with death, it always precedes a renewal that brings hope and His plan one step closer to His eternal objective.

Jonathan, what we're looking at is the beginnings of a process that gets repeated, and it looks different but it has the same elements, and that process is going to bring us to where God has known He's going to bring us all along.

[Jonathan] (14:51 - 15:09) Rick, going back to that last Scripture, death ended the previous age. The great deluge wiped out the wickedness and evil that had been perpetuated by fallen spirits who had gained control over the people. God put a stop to it and limited their abilities going forward.

[Rick] (15:09 - 16:15) What they did...the damage was done, but He limited their abilities going forward and said, you are held in darkness because you are no longer going to be able to do just that. What God did in this step-by-step—remember, small step-by-small step process, this is the heavenly Father who sees the beginning from the end, we're watching His plan unfold—the systems and corruption of that age were removed. That becomes a world that was, a world from way, way back before us.

Their death was necessary to provide a new beginning where God's plan could flourish without their influence. Just like you said, they would no longer have that same kind of influence, and Noah would be the one to carry the renewed hope. That's critical, because when there is death, there's always someone to carry the torch of renewal!

That's the thing we need to understand. The renewal for this next age, after the Flood, would begin with Noah and his family, because they would become the life givers. Genesis 8:15-17:

[Jonathan] (16:15 - 16:51) "Then God spoke to Noah, saying, Go out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons and your sons’ wives with you. Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, that they may breed abundantly on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth..." In Genesis 9;1, we read: "And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth."

This is exactly what God told Adam and Eve: "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth."

[Rick] (16:52 - 17:26) You can see God is renewing the opportunity that He had put in place originally. It's a different scenario, but He's renewing it. We've got to follow the way He sees it, the way He thinks it, and the way He directs it.

The responsibility of renewing the earth was given to them. Life would continue as a result. Noah is incredibly grateful.

He builds an altar and he offers a sacrifice of praise to God. God's renewal was not just a renewal. It came with a promise.

Let's look at Genesis 9:8-11:

[Jonathan] (17:27 - 18:00) "Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying, Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you; and with every living creature that is with you... of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth. I establish My covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth."

As we know, this is referring to the rainbow promise.

[Rick] (18:01 - 18:31) It was a symbol that God put in place so they could understand and remember and have the sense of security. That's important, Jonathan, because as we proceed through this, going through history, we see that God puts certain things in place that you can go back to and hold on to. There you have that rainbow promise.

That's the first big piece here. This promise was a step toward the life that God had planned for His creation. God's renewal process develops one step at a time.

And no, it's not coming tomorrow. It's one step at a time. That's the way we've got to see it.

[Jonathan] (18:32 - 18:41) "What if" God has had this all planned out--the pattern of death followed by renewal? Could there be something more to this?

[Rick] (18:41 - 19:03) That's the whole point, the "what if." What if God had this planned and put these pieces in place? Let's trace--now we've only begun--let's trace what the next step is and what the next step is and see how not only does one build upon what was previously there, but the brightness of the renewal each time gets bigger.

That's what we've got to really, really focus on here.

[Jonathan] (19:03 - 19:22) We just discussed the first age, "the world that was," from Adam to the Flood. During humanity's second age, God clearly dealt with and worked through faithful individuals such as Noah, but it went further. It was passed on to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph.

[Rick] (19:22 - 19:36) What we want to do is trace the pathway of God's renewal and hope. Let's start with Abraham, because Jonathan, this torch of renewal gets passed on. Let's see how that happens.

Let's look at Abraham, Genesis 12:1-3:

[Jonathan] (19:36 - 20:11) "Now the LORD said to Abram, Go forth from your country, and from your relatives and from your father’s house, to the land which I will show you; and I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great; and so you shall be a blessing; and I will bless those who bless you,

and the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed." Rick, this is so much bigger than when God said multiply and fill the earth.

"All the families of the earth will be blessed!"

[Rick] (20:11 - 20:53) Yeah, and this is also looking forward. This is future, not just the people who have lived, but all of the people who would live.

That's the bigness of what is being put in place. You can see that God's plan of renewal now is taking much more of a focused position. You had the promise to not destroy the earth.

Now you have the promise to bless all the families of the earth. Let's look at how God is building this. Remember, it goes through the cycle of death, renewal, and hope.

God's plan of renewal and hope was now becoming more focused through Abraham. Abraham would be blessed. In that blessing, he would also be the conduit for the blessings of everyone who would ever live.

[Jonathan] (20:54 - 21:04) All of them! What hope!! Rick, I like the way you said it the other day:

When God says something, it's history that hasn't been recorded yet.

[Rick] (21:04 - 21:48) Yep, because His word doesn't go back to Him unfulfilled. Let's go further. God restated this promise of blessing to Isaac, Abraham's son, and to Jacob.

Jacob's name was, we know, changed to Israel. When Jacob died--so again, we're fast-forwarding through time here--we see a marked change in how God's plan would unfold. Here's a death and a change that comes with it to bring another step towards renewal.

Instead of blessing one faithful person at a time--you mentioned Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph-- instead of blessing one faithful person at a time, God, through Jacob (or Israel, same individual) blessed all twelve of his sons. This is an expansion. Genesis 49:1-2:

[Jonathan] (21:49 - 22:08) "Then Jacob summoned his sons and said, Assemble yourselves that I may tell you what will befall you in the days to come. Gather together and hear, O sons of Jacob; and listen to Israel your father."

Rick, this is significant. Jacob calls himself Israel towards his sons.

[Rick] (22:09 - 22:31) There is an establishment of something bigger. That's why we're saying the death of Jacob brings the opportunity for the renewal on a different level. That's the pattern we want to follow.

Israel (Jacob) then speaks prophetically to each of his sons. When he's finished, he actually prepares to die. Let's go to Genesis 49:28-29:

[Jonathan] (22:32 - 22:56) "All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father said to them when he blessed them. He blessed them, every one with blessing appropriate to him.

Then he charged them and said to them, I am about to be gathered to my people; bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite." These are essentially his last words.

[Rick] (22:57 - 23:25) Yes. Yes. He is blessing them appropriately. Israel's death (Jacob's death) signified the end of another age.

It was the age of the fathers of faith, patriarchs, Patriarchal Age, okay? As God is dealing with individuals would now be expanded to dealing with an entire nation.

The drama of death of Israel, the man, would now translate into God's dealing with Israel, the nation.

[Jonathan] (23:25 - 23:50) So once again, in God's plan, a death marks another transition. The death of Jacob wasn't dramatic like the Flood. It was subtle, but the change it brings is quite eye opening.

God is altering the way He will deal with humanity. Instead of working primarily through individuals, He will now work through a large group of people who will become a nation.

[Rick] (23:50 - 24:02) You can see He's changing the way He's dealing with things. It's growing, it's expanding, or getting hints of the bigger picture. Again, let's look at Death, Renewal, Hope and God's Plan:

[Jonathan] (24:02 - 24:23) As God's plan unfolds, we can begin to see the relationship between death and renewal because of sin. We can see the necessity for death being a stepping stone so renewal and hope will have a new place to rest.

The further we go in tracing this connection, the more deeply we will appreciate God's wisdom.

[Rick] (24:23 - 24:48) Now the death of Jacob gives renewal a new place to rest. It's no longer on the individual. It's now going to be expanded further.

We're going to see how that unfolds coming up in a moment. The connections between death, renewal, and hope must be observed and appreciated if we're to truly see God's wisdom at work.

[Jonathan] (24:49 - 24:57) At the end of the first stage, we saw Noah carry the torch of renewal to the next stage. Who would carry that torch to the following age?

[Rick] (24:58 - 25:28) See, I'm picking up on the details. It's got to be carried by somebody. The torch would be carried by Joseph, one of Israel's sons.

Remember, he was the son of Israel who was sold into slavery by his jealous older brothers before his father died. His life of faithfulness, in spite of all the challenges laid before him, put him in a position of influence and power in the mighty land of Egypt. He would go on and save the world, including his own family, from seven years of famine.

[Jonathan] (25:28 - 25:55) Back to the death that ended the previous age--Joseph had risen to power in Egypt and brought his family there to care for them during the drought. Soon after, his father Israel died. Genesis 50:1-2:

"Then Joseph fell on his father's face, and wept over him and kissed him. Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father. So the physicians embalmed Israel."

[Rick] (25:56 - 26:56) It's so interesting, Jonathan, how one of Jacob's sons is the torchbearer of renewal. He's carrying the renewal, and it was demonstrated by his really saving the world because God was working with him. We're focusing in on Joseph just for a few minutes here, and it's remarkable, remarkable what he does with the opportunity he's given.

Renewal for this next stage begins with Joseph. He had been spared by God, he had been put in a place, and he was a savior. Huh, what does that remind you of?

Okay, he saves the world, okay? Now, here's what happens: Joseph eventually dies.

At that time, the people of Israel were thriving in the land of Goshen in Egypt, where Joseph had arranged for them to settle. But here's the thing, Jonathan; before he died, what did he do?

Joseph renewed God's promise to his brothers. He reminded them of something that would have been ancient history to them. Let's go to Genesis 50:24:

[Jonathan] (26:57 - 27:16) " Joseph said to his brothers, I am about to die, but God will surely take care of you and bring you up from this land to the land which He promised on oath to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob." Hope is coming through his great-grandfather, his grandfather, and his father.

[Rick] (27:16 - 28:04) Now it belonged to those sons as the beginning of the nation, carrying the torch of renewal, carrying hope. Joseph's death was obviously a very somber occasion, and it opened a door for some difficult things to happen. It allowed Israel, those living in the land of Egypt, to eventually become enslaved by the Egyptians.

Just when you get hope, it's like, oh, it's dashed. Well, years and years and years later, Moses would deliver them. Joseph had carried that torch of renewal to give Israel a place to flourish in, and Moses later carried that torch of renewal to firmly establish them as a nation.

So Israel was able to have a place to flourish, and then they were able to truly become the nation.

[Jonathan] (28:04 - 28:16) The transition from God dealing with individuals to dealing with millions of people is huge. Think about the hope Israel must have felt when God delivered them from slavery.

[Rick] (28:16 - 28:51) Yeah, and that hope came. Remember, the death of Jacob, the death of that one individual opened the door for the nation. It took generations for that nation to develop. But think how they would have appreciated being delivered from slavery after over one hundred years of slavery.

Well, after leading them out of Egypt, Moses delivered God's Law to them as His people, and that's the key. He's delivering His Law because they are now His people. Talk about carrying a torch of renewal and seeing the hope expanding!

Exodus 19:3-6:

[Jonathan] (28:51 - 29:28) "...Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."

Moses was that great torchbearer for Israel carrying that renewal.

[Rick] (29:29 - 29:52) He carried it, and it came in the form of a Law to lift them above the other nations of the world to give them civil consciousness of how to handle things. The Ten Commandments came and deliverances came and, Jonathan, challenges, and all too often the people responded with disobedience. That's just human nature in a sinful state.

[Jonathan] (29:52 - 30:07) Sadly, even Moses was disobedient to God and was not allowed to enter the Promised Land. So God passed the torch of renewal to Joshua, who would lead the nation into the Promised Land and toward greater heights.

[Rick] (30:07 - 30:56) You can see that the renewal is never lost. Sometimes it has to be transitioned and passed on. Even in spite of sin and difficulty, there's this torch of renewal that brings hope.

There's always something further that God is pointing His people to. What followed, though, brings them to greater heights, but what followed was the people wanting a king like the other nations of the world. Not a good situation.

What followed was periods of faithfulness and periods of unfaithfulness. They had prophets sent to them. Sometimes they listened and sometimes they didn't.

The prophet Amos, much later, reminds us of God's patience and faithfulness to them, even though they went through periods of disobedience. He was faithful to them. Here's what He says through the prophet Amos in Amos 3:1-2:

[Jonathan] (30:56 - 31:19) "Hear this word which the LORD has spoken against you, sons of Israel, against the entire family which He brought up from the land of Egypt: You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities."

Israel was given opportunity and responsibility.

[Rick] (31:19 - 32:23) That is a key that has been already showing itself, opportunity and responsibility. Started with Adam, opportunity and responsibility. Noah had opportunity and responsibility.

Abraham, opportunity and responsibility. Joseph had opportunity and responsibility. The nation was given those things, and that's where that torch of renewal brings hope.

There's opportunity, but there's responsibility to get toward that hope. We've got Israel going through now many, many years of obedience and disobedience, and we're really rapidly running through the Old Testament here. That's what we're doing.

Let's fast forward all the way to the beginning of the New Testament. John the Baptist would further carry that same torch of renewal as the greatest opportunity Israel had ever seen would come on the scene as Jesus, their Messiah. Now, Jesus is the torch of renewal.

John was the introduction. Let's look at Mark 1:1-3:

[Jonathan] (32:23 - 32:51) "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the son of God. As it is written in Isaiah the prophet: BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER (John the Baptist) AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY; THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD, MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT." The second portion of that prophecy is quoted from the book of Malachi, the last book in the Old Testament.

[Rick] (32:51 - 34:04) That's significant, because the last Old Testament prophecy is essentially about John the Baptist coming to introduce the Messiah. The first public events--not private events, where the angel Gabriel comes to Zacharias and comes to Mary and talks about them, the children--but the first public events of the New Testament are the exact same thing that the Old Testament ended up on. The Old Testament speaks and says, watch out for this, and then there's silence for four hundred years, and the next public event is John the Baptist fulfilling that prophecy.

Talk about a torch of renewal and hope. God brings it again at the appropriate time. Israel rejected their Messiah.

I mean, you were building this all up, and now they reject it. It's like, oh, come on! But see, this is how it works in a world of sin, and God knows, and His foresight is so magnificent that He'll continue to build the hope in spite of people's difficulties.

So Israel rejects their Messiah. Now Jesus knew this was coming, and he willingly gave his life as a ransom for them as well as for every other human being ever born in Adam.

[Jonathan] (34:05 - 34:33) Remember back at the beginning, we talked about how God sacrificed an animal to provide a covering for Adam and Eve's sin? That made me think about the death of the Passover lamb, which was sacrificed before Israel could be delivered from slavery in Egypt. Now we've come to the time when the Lamb of God, Jesus, offered himself as the great ransom sacrifice before the next renewal can begin.

[Rick] (34:34 - 35:01) You have Jesus coming and dying. That should be a hint. You have this torchbearer who's going to die, and he is the torch.

You see that we're coming to an end of another one of those ages and the beginning of a new period of time. But let's take a look at this death that would bring this renewal and hope. This is Jesus describing his death in a very significant way;

John 12:23-25.

[Jonathan] (35:02 - 35:33) Verse 24 is our theme text. "And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone;

but if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal." Jesus had to die before life could flourish in the future.

[Rick] (35:34 - 36:18) He is saying that. He's talking exactly about the pattern that God has laid out when Noah picked up that little thread, that thread of hope. Remember, it was just a thread, and then Jacob dies, and the favor is turned over to his sons and the nation. Now the nation has come to a point where they've rejected the Messiah.

Now when you look at that rejection, you think everything is dashed, and yet this thread of hope is even stronger because Jesus presents himself a humble, willing, and complete laying down of his perfect life. It was the life of the only man who had ever fully kept the Law of Moses.

Two more verses from John 12. Jonathan, let's go to verses 27 and 28:

[Jonathan] (36:19 - 36:31) "Now my soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, Father, save me from this hour? But for this purpose I came to this hour.

Father, glorify Your name."

[Rick] (36:31 - 37:21) You have that beautiful, beautiful acquiescence to the will of God. The torch, this torch of hope and renewal, is essentially saying, I can be put out, apparently, for a time, because that was the necessary price that needed to be paid. Why?

To glorify God's name. Why? Because "what if," what if from the very beginning, God had this all planned and put the pieces in place, and now the Savior of Israel, who was rejected, dies and it looks hopeless.

But "what if" it's not only NOT hopeless, but it is a magnificent NEW BEGINNING? Again, Jonathan, let's go back to Death, Renewal, Hope and God's Plan:

[Jonathan] (37:21 - 37:45) Israel as a nation was given the marvelous privilege of being God's chosen people, and yet sin and selfishness got in the way. Many warned them, and many were rejected, including their Messiah. Again, we have death,

and again we will see that death, particularly this death, would carry renewal and hope forward.

[Rick] (37:45 - 38:00) This death does it in a very, very different kind of way. The drama of Israel's deliverance from slavery compared to the rejection of the Messiah, it's dramatic. And no, God is not finished blessing Israel yet.

[Jonathan] (38:01 - 38:10) How is this all working? It sure seems like every time there is death and renewal, there's also a turning away from that renewal. Where's the hope?

[Rick] (38:10 - 39:04) That's what a lot of you may be thinking, like, yeah, but every time God puts it in place, man screws it up. Yes, that's true. That's part of the plan, part of the bigness, part of the "what if" unfolding.

The key point here is that God's plan has been unfolding in stages. Adam sinned, and that sin led to a degraded world with spirit beings interfering with the evil that already was. God stopped that and proceeded to deal with individuals based on His promises to them.

Fast forward, when Jacob died (Israel) God now had a family who would become a nation. God would draw the Messiah from them. In spite of their stubbornness, Jesus came and was faithful and died as a necessary price for Adam's sin.

God's plan is progressing with each death, with the depression and the sadness that comes with it, because with those things come renewal.

[Jonathan] (39:05 - 39:52) God's plan is becoming bigger and clearer as we go. Back to the death that ended the previous age, 1 Timothy 2:3-6 from the King James Version: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." We can see the harmony between the promise made to Abraham and Paul's writings here in 1 Timothy: "In thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

That seed, that grain of wheat, bears much fruit.

[Rick] (39:53 - 41:12) Jonathan, we're going through this, and we know this because we have the notes, right? You're seeing the story and you're seeing the sadness of the death of Jesus and the depression and the anxiety that would come, and you're thinking, just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait, because the next chapter is going to build to something that was never even seen before, which is going to build to something that was never even seen before. That's the way all of this is working.

This message of renewal, that all are redeemed from death through Jesus, that's the message. Now God's step-by-step plan, like you said, is being seen more clearly, more understandably, more fully, and it can begin to make sense if we follow the scriptural pieces. Not tradition, but scriptural pieces.

What do the Scriptures show us? This renewal for this next age--so we had the age of Jewish favor--this renewal for this next age would begin with the results of Jesus' sacrifice. Who's going to carry the torch?

The torch of renewal would be carried by those who were called to walk in the sacrificial footsteps of Jesus, initially his apostles. This all began at Pentecost when God's spirit was given to those apostles. That's where Christianity was truly born and torchbearers were to be called into service.

Look at the smile on your face.

[Jonathan] (41:12 - 41:18) I love this. I love how this death and renewal continues throughout all of these stages.

[Rick] (41:18 - 41:23) It gets bigger and more promising every time it happens. Let's look at Ephesians 1:18:

[Jonathan] (41:24 - 41:38) "I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints..."

[Rick] (41:38 - 41:58) Paul is writing, saying I am praying that you can see what this incredible opportunity is, not only for you but for all. You can see what you are a part of, what this torch of renewal actually looks like, what it brings. Let's look at a little bit more about what it brings.

[Jonathan] (41:59 - 42:36) This calling must be understood as a call to sacrifice our earthly lives and ambitions in order to do God's will, no matter what the cost. Romans 12:1-2: "Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect."

[Rick] (42:36 - 43:05) This beauty, this renewal, this hope comes through a following in the footsteps of Jesus, which led to a difficult end for Jesus, which led to complete self-sacrifice. To what end do these torchbearers carry this torch of renewal? To the end of establishing hope, but that hope would also need, what does it need every time you need new hope?

What does it need first?

[Jonathan] (43:05 - 43:05) Death.

[Rick] (43:06 - 43:40) It needed death to be given its free reign.

There's two kinds of death here, Jonathan, that are important. One is a very positive one. Well, they're both very positive, but we've just got to see them through a different set of eyes.

First, the death of those who follow Jesus. Yes, that's part of the plan, so they can be raised to their heavenly reward.

You can't get there from this form. You have to have death. You have to cease to exist and be raised by the heavenly Father through Christ.

Romans 8:35-36:

[Jonathan] (43:40 - 43:58) "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;

WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."

[Rick] (43:58 - 44:57) "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." Jesus was that sacrifice as the Lamb of God. We also are as sheep.

We have to be willing to follow in that. That's part of the death. That is the cost of getting to the next level of renewal.

But we know that Jesus said, if I go, I go to prepare a place for you in heaven. It's not this thing that was like, oh, it's terrible. It's a difficulty that brings something much more glorious.

Here's the other side of the death equation, Jonathan. Second is the death and destruction of the spiritual and earthly kingdoms of this earth, because they are not able to house and to develop the kingdom of God that Jesus told us to pray for. "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth..."

They can't build that. In a prophecy, Daniel 2:44 explains that in a very few words, very, very succinctly.

[Jonathan] (44:57 - 45:14) Daniel 2:44: "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever."

[Rick] (45:15 - 45:48) Similar to the death at that first age, "the world that was," where those kingdoms were destroyed, that's what this is saying. But it's saying God's kingdom will take its place and it will endure forever. What a powerful promise!

You say, that's scary. Yes, it is. But what follows it is not.

What follows it is renewal and great hope. What follows this death? Renewal and great, great hope.

It can't even begin to be described, but we're going to try anyway.

[Jonathan] (45:49 - 46:55) The following Scripture is a Messianic prophecy of the next age. It describes the transition from the collapse of Satan's present evil world to the establishment of God's kingdom on earth. Isaiah 35:8-10:

"A highway will be there, a roadway, and it will be called the Highway of Holiness. The unclean will not travel on it, but it will be for him who walks that way, and fools will not wander on it. No lion will be there, nor will any vicious beast go up on it;

these will not be found there. But the redeemed will walk there, and the ransomed of the LORD will return and come with joyful shouting to Zion, with everlasting joy upon their heads. They will find gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing will flee away." This is an overwhelming renewal for humanity.

"No lion" means no Satan to interfere. "No beast" means no false religions to confuse the people. No fear, just joy and gladness with eternity before them.

[Rick] (46:56 - 47:29) Because Jesus paid the price and brought them to that opportunity. That's really what the Day of Judgment is about. It's about a day of reconciliation and renewal.

It's not a judgment like, "You're bad, you're going to die!" It's a judgment of, here's what you've done, here's how you have to work through it. It's a beautiful renewal and hope.

Now let's go to one final Scripture, Jonathan, that gives us a very different perspective of this. It's a very symbolic perspective, because it comes from Revelation. Revelation 21:1-4:

[Jonathan] (47:30 - 49:03) "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth (he word "new" means made fresh, renewed, not brand new); for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea."

Simply stated, Satan's evil world died, came to an end, and God's kingdom on earth replaced it, all freshened up. Continuing in verse 2: "And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them..."

Rick, remember, God was walking in the garden with Adam? Talk about renewed hope! "...and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death;

there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." An important thing to remember is that mankind will have to learn to be reconciled to God.

They will have to become responsible. They're given opportunity and responsibility, like you've been saying, for their past baggage, and learn to live according to God's will. Just as Israel had the opportunity to follow God's Law after He redeemed them from slavery, the world of mankind, God's people, will need to be willing to conform to the New Law Covenant from their hearts.

[Rick] (49:03 - 49:43) They have the opportunity for life and the responsibility to learn and live godliness. The fact that it says in the Scripture more than once, God is among men, He will dwell with them, they will be His people, He Himself will be among them. It gives you the sense of, this renewal has its grand completion in bringing back what God started with Adam in the garden.

You see, the pathway of sin and death wasn't the end. It was the pathway to learn lessons that would last for eternity. Once again, Jonathan, Death, Renewal, Hope and God's Plan:

[Jonathan] (49:44 - 50:17) God's foresight is magnificent. His plan allowed sin and death to enter and to dominate humanity for the purpose of showing His entire creation the value of life and obedience to His grand design. Through thousands of years, God has been inching humanity toward a position where we can recognize and appreciate life and righteousness.

Jesus is the centerpiece of this journey, and we can follow his lead and become contributors to the renewal and hope that are coming.

[Rick] (50:17 - 52:05) We can play a part in this. There's this opportunity and responsibility in this renewal and hope. Adam had opportunity and responsibility, and he sinned.

You had the "world that was," and then it ended with death and destruction, a massive death and destruction, but you had the thread of hope with Noah carrying that righteousness. Then you had the age of those patriarchs, those fathers of faith--Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and so forth. They carried through, and yet you had to have the death of Jacob to start the time of Israel. You have the age of the Jewish favor that happened.

That came to an end with Jesus. He died because they rejected him, and he gave himself willingly as this ransom. This torch of renewal burst into this massive flame of hope, as now those who are begotten by God's spirit carry the message of God's kingdom, which comes through that next Messianic Age. It is a dramatic story, Jonathan.

This is a dramatic story of how God takes something small, something sad, and something depressing, and He says, Wait, let Me work with it. Let Me show you how I can take this, take this hardship, and turn it into something positive, something hopeful. The resurrection is for all men.

The resurrection is for all men because Jesus died for every human being who ever lived. All of those who sinned and made mistakes, they have that opportunity. That's renewal.

That's hope. That's what God has intended all along. Just read it in His words because they are history that has not yet been recorded.

Think about it. Coming up in our next episode: "What Big Lessons Can We Learn From the Little Book of 3 John?"

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