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[Announcer] (0:00 - 0:18) Think about the Bible like you never have before. You're listening to Christian Questions. Access more audio, videos, and Bible study resources at ChristianQuestions.com.

Our topic is: "How Can I Cope With Depression?" Here's Rick, Jonathan, and Julie.

[Rick] (0:20 - 0:30) Welcome, everyone. I'm Rick. I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over twenty-five years. Julie, a long-time contributor, is also with us.

Jonathan, what's our theme scripture for this episode?

[Jonathan] (0:31 - 0:48) 1 Peter 1:5-6: "Who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials."

[Rick] (0:49 - 1:49) Depression can be overwhelming. Even though many people do suffer from it, and even though there are treatments and medications that can help it, depression can still be an insurmountable life obstacle for every individual who faces it. There is no easy answer and there is no miracle cure,

so those of us who experience it are left with the sober reality of its potential lurking influence in our daily lives. So what do we do? As Christians, we're taught to have faith and rely on God's peace.

While this is sound and powerful advice, we need to find ways to deeply rely on our faith and to transform God's peace into a tool of growth and healing. One way to work on this is to observe the struggles of a biblical hero of faith and step-by-step identify with their struggle and their journey toward a more God-driven life.

[Julie] (1:49 - 2:31) We're going to start that shortly but we just want to say this is a serious topic because depression is a leading cause or risk factor for suicide, and that highlights the importance of diagnosis and treatment. It is very treatable with the majority of patients who find relief through medication or therapy or life changes. As a disclaimer, we are NOT medical professionals. We have not been professionally trained to handle anxiety or depression disorders.

Often, Christians may need professional help, including medication, to handle these kinds of challenges, and we fully advocate for such treatment when and where it's appropriate. If you suffer from depression, we're thankful that you're listening today. You are not alone.

[Rick] (2:31 - 3:09) That really ends up being a major, major theme here. You are not alone. Think about this.

Why would God call one who is challenged with depression to follow Jesus when we all know that this kind of issue tends to downplay the outward transformation that so many Christians look for? In so many circles, Christianity is such an emotional thing, and you say, well, everybody's feeling good and they're saved and all that, and here you are. You're just not there.

Why would God call someone with that kind of challenge? Let's look at 1 Corinthians 1:26-30 to begin to establish an answer.

[Jonathan] (3:09 - 4:02) This is from the New Living Translation: "Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you. Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise.

And He chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.

God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God;

he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin."

[Julie] (4:02 - 4:38) I'm used to this in the King James and some other versions that are a little wordy and confusing, so I'm glad that you read from the New Living Translation. There're some easy-to-memorize sayings here when we're struggling with self-worth. God has united me with Christ Jesus.

God has united me with Christ Jesus. Easy to memorize. Christ has made me right with God.

It's not about us having to be so great or strong or smart, because it's only because we stay under the covering of Jesus that we're even remotely acceptable. We directly benefit from his relationship with our Father.

[Jonathan] (4:39 - 5:04) God only calls certain individuals to be true footstep followers of Jesus. Therefore, the greatest privilege that God's plan offers is not usually given to those who have the greatest intellect or courage or experience. On the contrary, it is given to those who struggle and who have deficiencies and who are afraid.

God wants those who struggle to be His people!

[Rick] (5:05 - 6:19) Let that sink in just for a moment. The call, according to this scripture in 1 Corinthians, basically says, I'm not looking for the best of the best. I'm looking for those who struggle so that My grace, so that God's grace can be in them, because we're united with Christ, and Christ made us right with God.

You're right, Julie, it's not about us. When we struggle with these things, think about, you are what God is looking for. That's what the scripture says, so let's keep that in mind as we begin to unfold this.

For those of us who experience depression, either chronically or occasionally, let's consider that the weight of this experience that we have can be a powerful tool of God as He teaches us to, small step by small step, rely on His grace, rely on His strength, rely on His spirit, and rely on His providence, small step by small step. The difficulties that we have in our lives are actually tools in the hand of God. We want to learn how to understand and recognize that.

We'll walk through some of the experiences of God's mighty prophet Elijah to illustrate God's care and compassion for those who He chooses to do His work.

[Julie] (6:19 - 6:28) Under the reign of King Ahab and Queen Jezebel, Israel was deeply entrenched in idolatry. We start with 1 Kings 16:32-33:

[Jonathan] (6:28 - 6:42) "So he erected an altar for Baal in the house of Baal, which he built in Samaria. Ahab also made the Asherah. Thus Ahab did more to provoke the LORD God of Israel than all the kings of Israel who were before him."

[Julie] (6:42 - 6:50) Next, Elijah was sent to the king to proclaim God's consequences for their idolatry in the form of a drought, 1 Kings 17:1:

[Jonathan] (6:50 - 7:01) "Now Elijah...said to Ahab, As the LORD, the God of Israel lives, before whom I stand, surely there shall be neither dew or rain these years, except by my word."

[Julie] (7:01 - 7:09) Elijah then hid from the king, and about three and a half years later, God instructs Elijah to go back to the king. 1 Kings 18:1:

[Jonathan] (7:09 - 7:20) "Now it happened after many days that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, show yourself to Ahab, and I will send rain on the face of the earth."

[Julie] (7:20 - 7:27) That first meeting between Ahab and Elijah was confrontational, to say the least. 1 Kings 18:17-19:

[Jonathan] (7:27 - 7:54) "When Ahab saw Elijah, Ahab said to him, Is this you, you troubler of Israel? He said, I have not troubled Israel, but you and your father's house have, because you have forsaken the commandments of the LORD and you have followed the Baals. Now then send and gather to me all Israel at Mount Carmel, together with 450 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of the Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table."

[Julie] (7:54 - 8:21) Now this is a great set of scriptures to read and really understand what happened, because this event at Mount Carmel was the most dramatic demonstration of God's power. One man, Elijah, stood against 850 of these priests, these idolatrous priests, and he prevailed. God sent fire down from heaven to consume Elijah's sacrifice.

There was a big showdown, and just as God said, the rains would come as the foundations for Baal worship had been destroyed.

[Jonathan] (8:22 - 8:33) What a strong and mighty prophet God called to do His will! We can draw on Elijah's experience to gain confidence as we are called to follow Christ and do the Father's will.

[Rick] (8:33 - 9:13) Now, think about this. We just summed up this magnificent effort on the part of Elijah to dethrone Baal in terms of worship in Israel, and he's done this remarkable job. Now we're talking about depression, and we think, wait, how do those two even begin to fit together?

You'd think that such a decisive victory and ending of the drought, because the rain started again at the end of all of this as well, you'd think that the ending of those things would have brought a good result for Elijah. You'd think that he's like, hey, everything's great, we're really moving in the right direction. It did not bring a good result.

Let's continue with 1 Kings 19:1-2:

[Jonathan] (9:13 - 9:36) "Now Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and how he had killed all the prophets with a sword. Then Jezebel sent a messenger to Elijah, saying, So may the gods do to me and even more, if I do not make your life as the life of one of them by tomorrow about this time." Essentially, Elijah, you'll be assassinated within 24 hours!

[Julie] (9:37 - 9:54) What a gap between expectation and reality! Elijah expected Israel to turn back to God, away from idolatry after this showdown at Mount Carmel, but instead he faced rejection, leading to deep despair. We need to be on guard when things don't turn out the way we hoped or expected.

[Rick] (9:55 - 10:50) Now you have, like you said, the turn of events, and as we will see, Elijah would run away because he is literally afraid for his life. Incidentally, with very good reason, okay? He has very good reason to be afraid for his life.

This part of his mighty experience would end up revealing the deep inward turmoil of Elijah's fragile life. Now, I just said his life is fragile. You didn't get anything fragile out of all of the events leading up to this, but what we're going to see from here on out is the fragile core inside of this amazing prophet, and the difficulty, and the challenges that he would face from the inside out.

As we unfold this, we want to lay the groundwork for Dealing with Depression's Challenges:

[Jonathan] (10:51 - 11:08) Depression, left to its own devices, seemingly has no master outside of its own agenda. Understanding and embracing this fact can be a very important foundation for learning how to address such a difficult and reoccurring challenge in our lives.

[Rick] (11:09 - 11:34) It happens, and as we're going to see, it became a very, very major part of the next section of Elijah's life, and what a great learning experience it will be for us as well. Even though Elijah did all the right things over time, the negative impact of his positive actions would cause him fear. This kind of sounds like the rest of us!

[Jonathan] (11:35 - 11:44) Even though Elijah was so powerfully used by God, he was still human. How would he manage his own depression and still serve God?

[Rick] (11:44 - 12:35) This is an important question for us. By focusing on what Elijah did and did not do, it will show us the reality of the struggle. As we will see, Elijah didn't just remarkably recover from his depressed state.

Oh, no, no. On the other hand, he struggled with it, even though--even though he was given clear and godly direction on each step of his journey. Now as we unfold the difficult part of Elijah's experience, the depression part of Elijah's experience, we want to understand depression from the perspective of what happens to Elijah.

We're going to look at three phases of depression that are shown to us in Elijah's experience. OUR FIRST DEPRESSION OBSERVATION, that first phase, is what we call INTERNALIZATION.

[Jonathan] (12:36 - 12:47) Focus on what is happening by interpreting things using the solitary perspective of inside-out thinking-- MY thoughts, MY feelings, MY conclusions.

[Rick] (12:48 - 13:22) That's the solitary perspective of thinking from the inside-out. I have thoughts, I have feelings, I have conclusions, I have a sense of things, and I see it this way as a result. That's the internalization.

That's where a lot of this begins. Now Elijah had overcome insurmountable odds--and we just barely touched on those in the last segment--as he stood for God, and as a result of his heroic efforts, he was faced with being hunted and executed. You think, oh man, it just doesn't seem to fit right.

He's afraid. Let's see what happens. 1 Kings 19:3-5:

[Jonathan] (13:22 - 13:24) "And he was afraid and arose and ran for his life and came to Beersheba... and left his servant there. But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree; and he requested for himself that he might die, and said, It is enough; now, O LORD, take my life, for I am not better than my fathers. He lay down and slept under a juniper tree..."

[Julie] (13:50 - 14:08) This is awful! He is so completely overwhelmed. He's giving up.

He poured his whole heart into trying to destroy idolatry, and look where that got him. He's now alone, and it's as if he's saying, oh, I couldn't fix it. I couldn't do the work you had me to do, God.

I'm a failure.

[Rick] (14:09 - 15:09) He sits down under this tree, and his prayer is uttered, and then he ends up laying down under this tree. You can see the defeat unfolding. His only prayer here, recorded, is for his suffering to end, and he sought to numb his discouragement with sleep.

It says he lay down and slept under this tree. Was this the reward for successfully and courageously standing for and serving the living God? Is this what you get?

This is how he's feeling at this moment, and again, you look at it and say, Well, you can't blame him in a way. It was such a massive victory, and yet he's alone, and like you said, he feels like he's failed. As we go through the account of Elijah, there are continuous depressive points throughout this entire account, and as we go through them, we need to interject hope, because without hope, there's nothing.

Julie, where is our hope at the beginning of this depressive state?

[Julie] (15:10 - 15:21) We can find some in Philippians 1:6: "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."

[Rick] (15:22 - 15:57) Interestingly, this is a New Testament promise for us as Christians. If we are suffering and dealing with depression, think about the words, "He who began a good work in you will perfect it." Look at Elijah. God had begun a good work in him.

God wasn't done with him yet. He would need to learn that over time. There's a ray--just a small little ray--of hope.

Now, in his despair, Elijah had stopped to rest and to give up. Instead, what happens here, he is actually strengthened to go on. Let's continue in 1 Kings 19:5-6:

[Jonathan] (15:57 - 16:12) "...there was an angel touching him, and he said to him, Arise, eat. Then he looked, and behold, there was at his head a bread cake baked on hot stones, and a jar of water. So he ate and drank and lay down again."

[Rick] (16:12 - 16:55) Even in Elijah's weakness, what happens? God's direct providence strengthened him and directed him. An angel touched him, gently getting his attention.

Elijah's purpose hadn't ended. He just didn't know it yet. God is paying attention in the throes, in the midst of, just take my life because it's worthless.

I've failed utterly, failed miserably, there's just simply nothing left. That's a very sad, difficult, horrible place to be. At this point, Julie, I think we need some more hope.

[Julie] (16:55 - 17:18) Let's find it in Psalm 34:7-8, back to the Old Testament: "The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him (meaning revere God), and rescues them. Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good;

how blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!" I like that it said "taste," because the Lord nourishes, just like the angel gave Elijah physical food.

[Rick] (17:19 - 17:59) Not only is it "taste and see that the Lord is good," it's that the angel was with him, encamped with him. If someone's encamped with you, you know what that means? That means you're not alone.

Elijah wasn't ready or able to see that, but that was the message that God would begin to present. We've got this first depression observation of internalizing, and how difficult it is. Along with that, as we go through those three points--internalization being the first--we want to go through the DEPRESSION SMALL STEPS TOWARDS GODLY PEACE.

The first step that we look at in relation to internalization is to ACKNOWLEDGE.

[Jonathan] (18:00 - 18:15) Simply acknowledge that godly external input is present. Allow it to touch us, to get our attention. Even though it may not change how we feel, this acknowledgement can plant seeds of hope in our hearts and minds.

[Rick] (18:15 - 19:08) It's important to recognize that we're not suggesting this acknowledgement is some kind of miraculous cure-- oh good, it's here, I'm great! No, what we're saying is, in accordance with the account of Elijah, and we're going to see that he acknowledged it, but he didn't act on it from within because he couldn't.

He didn't know how it was beyond him, and it was okay for it to be beyond him. It was okay. He just needed to acknowledge that external help and hope from God was there.

Remember now, he had laid down, and this angel gave him food and said, "Arise and eat." Then he eats, and then he lays down again. Though clearly cared for and strengthened, as we said, Elijah was not yet ready to respond.

He needed more attention, and he needed repeated direction. Let's go now to 1 Kings 19:7:

[Jonathan] (19:09 - 19:18) "The angel of the LORD came again a second time and touched him and said, Arise, eat, because the journey is too great for you."

[Julie] (19:18 - 19:48) I like that, adding that little detail about the angel touching him here for a second time. It's an act of reassurance and encouragement, and I think it's sweet. Physical touch has an effect on mental well-being.

Research has shown that regular positive touch, like hugs, like massage, has been associated with improvements in mood and reduced anxiety and decreased stress levels in individuals with depression. It makes sense that he would be reassured with this touch.

[Rick] (19:48 - 20:45) The touch reminds us that we're not alone. This is God's gentle reminder that he's not alone. Here now, the second time, he's roused again by the angel's gentle touch as he needed more strength, and so he's provoked to eat some more.

God's care was evident as He was carefully and completely preparing Elijah for his next steps. See, God had not abandoned him. Elijah may have felt so, but God had other plans.

Elijah just doesn't see it. He is carrying too much weight. Here's the thing; God's not yelling at him, Elijah, wake up!

He is gently, gently touching and giving him the nourishment and saying, You've got to move on, you've got to move on, you've got to move on. There's such, such great compassion here in Elijah's experience. This is how God's providence can work for us.

Julie, where's our hope now?

[Julie] (20:46 - 21:19) Psalm 73:26. This is a wonderful scripture if we're not feeling well for any reason: "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever."

Our human bodies and our emotions are very fragile. We're subject to exhaustion and sickness and discouragement, even to this point of depression. This phrase, "God is the strength of my heart," it literally in Hebrew means "rock of my heart."

That's stability, endurance, refuge in God. We can take heart in God.

[Rick] (21:20 - 21:45) You can see that in this part of Elijah's experience he's being given care, he's being shown care, he's being given direction. He's not in any place to just be able to jump all over it and be happy and rejoice, but God gives it anyway. That's what we want to understand, and that's what we want to begin to put in place.

Again, let's go back to Dealing with Depression's Challenges:

[Jonathan] (21:46 - 22:12) Depression's instinct is to internalize our pain, to deal with it within the concentrated quietness of our own minds. Even if we instinctively shrug off God's providences in our despair, let us try and simply acknowledge that they can and do exist. Let us take the small step of knowing they are there even if we cannot readily respond to them.

[Rick] (22:12 - 23:04) Remember the first time Elijah received the nourishment from the angel, what did he do? He went back to sleep. He wasn't ready, and so he gently was nudged again.

He was gently, again, given what he needed and told, There's more for you, there's more for you. Even if we're not ready to just to embrace it, it's okay, because here's the nature of God our Father. He will give and He will give whether we are capable of receiving, because He knows our heart, He knows who we are, He knows our brokenness, and He's going to give patiently so that we can eventually get to the point of being able to grab hold of, to grasp what He's actually showing us.

What a turn of events here. This great hero of faith is now mired in the depths of his own despair. This sure looks and feels hopeless.

[Jonathan] (23:04 - 23:10) Now that Elijah is in the depths of depression, how will God lift him and show him a way forward?

[Rick] (23:11 - 23:42) By observing the way God worked with Elijah to eventually--and I'm going to stress eventually--rekindle hope in him, we can gain a much clearer understanding of how God can and will work with us when we enter our own despair. Again, there are no miracles here. While Elijah had an angel guiding him, we can also have God's messengers in the form of family, of friends or of the brotherhood present to help us along as well.

[Julie] (23:43 - 24:40) I was thinking, here Elijah gets an angel restoring him with a touch and a special cake, what do we get? Well, for those of us on the flip side who don't suffer from depression, we might ask, how can I be a messenger? How can I be the angel for someone else?

I was reading a Time Magazine article entitled, "The Worst Things to Say to Someone Who's Depressed." We'll put the link to the article in this week's CQ Rewind Show Notes, but here's one of the points: Don't say, "Oh well, everyone feels like that sometimes." This is a well-intentioned response that often stems from a desire to normalize an uncomfortable situation, but instead it minimizes it.

Depression isn't just about feeling sad. It can lead to symptoms including fatigue, brain fog, social isolation, suicidal thoughts, and weight gain or loss. So instead say: "That sounds really heavy.

I'm here to support you however I can."

[Rick] (24:40 - 25:25) That's such good, strong, sound advice, because if you don't deal with depression in your life, you don't suffer from it, it's very difficult to see how utterly debilitating it is, and how you just get stuck inside of this place, and there just is no hope. You can't "snap somebody out of it," because it won't work. It's not possible.

What we can do is, like you said, acknowledge, Wow, that sounds like it's really, really challenging! The bottom line is to understand that if you are in that place, you don't have to be alone. OUR SECOND DEPRESSION OBSERVATION, we talked about INTERNALIZAITON. What comes from that is being alone, and that is ISOLATION.

[Jonathan] (25:26 - 25:38) Internalizing invites isolation. In this state of mind, we are alone, and we have defensively shut down or minimized the effects of outside influences.

[Rick] (25:39 - 26:29) Not only are we ignoring them, we're just kind of letting them go by. We are now shutting them down. We are now minimizing.

There's a consciousness to say, I just don't want that. You look at that and say, well wait, no, no...you know what? It's okay, because if you're stuck there, and that's the way it's working, that's the way it's working.

Let's go back to Elijah, and let's identify with him, because we're going to see that's exactly what he was going to be doing. Now, he received strength that second time from the angel, and now Elijah would be able to continue following God's direction, though he would still be alone, and he would still be struggling. The key is, he's following God's direction, alone and struggling, but he is working.

He's taking steps. Even though his heart may not be in it, he's taking steps. 1 Kings 19:8:

[Jonathan] (26:29 - 26:52) "So he arose and ate and drank, and went in the strength of that food forty days and forty nights to Horeb, the mountain of God." Rick and Julie, even though Elijah was depressed, God accepted whatever he could offer. This mountain, Mount Horeb, is also known as Mount Sinai.

[Julie] (26:53 - 27:25) Beersheba and Mount Horeb are about 417 kilometers apart. For those of us in the United States, that's about 260 miles. The text we read said Elijah left his servant in Beersheba, traveled a day into the wilderness.

It should have taken maybe at most about two weeks to get to Mount Horeb, so forty days was way longer than would have been expected. Incidentally, both Jesus and Moses miraculously fasted and prayed for forty days and forty nights, and all three appear in the vision of the Mount of Transfiguration.

[Jonathan] (27:25 - 27:31) That is cool. Symbolically, the number forty in the Bible often indicates a period of testing.

[Rick] (27:31 - 28:49) Here he is, forty days walking and struggling alone. He's probably doing a lot of wandering at this point, because if it's a straight line walk of a couple of weeks and you're going forty days, there's a lot of extra time here. God led him to this unforeseen destination.

Elijah had no idea that's where he was supposed to be going originally. It's here at Mount Horeb that he would begin--he would begin, he would begin--the process of refocusing. As we're going to get there, let's think about this lonely, quiet time that he experiences during those forty days of journey.

Plenty of time to recount his own thoughts, to dwell upon what he perceived to be as his own failures. If you're walking by yourself and you've just had that experience, what goes through your mind again and again and again and again? It's this recording that's in your head, and it's overwhelming as he's dragging himself to where God is bringing him.

But he's going. Let's remember that. He's going.

Even if it's taking him much longer, he's still going. Julie, let's get an injection of hope here, shall we?

[Julie] (28:49 - 29:12) For sure. Isaiah 40:31 says: "Yet those who wait for the LORD will gain new strength; They will mount up with wings like eagles,

they will run and not get tired, they will walk and not become weary." In our case here, Elijah was certainly gaining strength by being patiently cared for by the Lord's angel and now moving little steps in the right direction.

[Rick] (29:12 - 29:54) He was gaining that strength. It said in the strength of that food, he went for forty days. The Lord strengthened him, and also that promise says "they will walk and not be weary."

He was able to make it. He got there in spite of everything, and that's the beauty of this. Even when someone's in a depressed state, they can still be heading in the right direction, though slowly, though feeling like they're a failure every single step--that's where Elijah was--

but it's okay. God understands. God sees where you are, and He can reach out with this hope, little piece by little piece.

We were talking about isolation here. OUR SECOND DEPRESSION SMALL STEP TOWARDS GODLY PEACE, to help put that in order, is to APPLY.

[Jonathan] (29:55 - 30:09) Simply apply the external godly input we have received to the darkness of our own perceptions. To apply this input is to respond to it. It is to communicate with God about where we are and how we feel.

[Rick] (30:10 - 31:14) Now, applying doesn't mean it's going to get better. It simply means that what we want to do is apply the godly input to our lives. Yes, Lord, here You are.

You have me going to this other place. I don't know if I can get there. I'm weary.

I'm done. I'm a failure. As he walks, why are You bringing me there?

I'm a failure. I don't know what to do. I don't know how it is that You can change what's already happened. As he walks,

he's going through this, and he's taking those steps. He's applying on a level that says, I'm trying to follow God, even though my heart is broken. I just, I can't get there.

Here's what we see. He's now on this forty-day journey. He's just been nourished and miraculously built up by that food, and yet, in that nourishment and being built up by that food that had held him over for those forty days, he only saw one thing.

Here's the one thing that he saw. He gets to Mount Horeb, and here's what he sees. 1 Kings 19:9-10:

[Jonathan] (31:15 - 31:23) "Then he came there to a cave and lodged there; and behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and He said to him, What are you doing here, Elijah?"

[Julie] (31:23 - 31:38) What I really love about this is that God called him by name. Can you imagine if God called you by name? Of course, the Lord knew how Elijah had gotten to this point, but the question forced Elijah to examine himself and to articulate exactly what he was feeling.

[Jonathan] (31:39 - 32:11) 1 Kings 19:10: "He said, I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars and killed Your prophets with the sword. And I alone am left; and they seek my life, to take it away." This is so sad! This makes no sense to him.

He did everything God told him to, and yet he failed to bring Israel back to God. What he expected to happen didn't happen. Worse, he thought he was the only faithful servant of God left.

[Julie] (32:11 - 32:31) That's the only thing he could see through all this; "I alone am left." Now, Rick, from a practical standpoint, when you help those with depression in your role as a minister, what's the normal pushback? Why can't people just instinctively understand that isolating isn't good for them?

[Rick] (32:31 - 34:17) Because it's so deep, it's so dark, it's so overwhelming that there is no other reality. When you start to press in, one of the reactions you get sometimes is, look, if you knew who I really am, if everybody knew who I really am, nobody would want me around. You realize that that's part of where they're dwelling, in this place of just isolation.

I know we're using that word over and over again, but there's this sense of there's just nobody and there's no hope. What you can say to them is, Okay, all right, but you know what? I'm here, and I'm not going to leave your side.

I'm here with you. I want to walk with you. I want to sit with you.

We'll be quiet together, whatever it takes. Then somebody...also another push back can be, well, look, have you ever gone through this? Have you ever experienced depression?

I never have. Now, I get depressed, but I've never experienced depression. There's a massive difference between the two.

I've been asked that many times. Have you ever experienced depression, Brother Rick? The answer is no.

No, I haven't. But let me tell you what I know. I know who you are because God called you.

I know that you were made right in Christ Jesus. I know that you are given the same grace that I am given. That's what I know about you.

I can't enter into your experience, but I can walk alongside of you knowing who you are in Christ. This is important for us to help understand, for those of us who don't go through it, to understand those who do, and for those of us who do go through it, to recognize that you don't have to be alone. Again, just because somebody shows up doesn't make it all better,

but what it does is it gives you something, some small thing. Julie, let's go for more scriptural hope.

[Julie] (34:18 - 34:32) Isaiah 43:1: "But now thus says the LORD, your Creator, O Jacob, and He who formed you, O Israel, Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine!"

[Rick] (34:33 - 35:20) "I have called you by name." Elijah, what are you doing here? "I have called you by name."

You realize that the concept of being called one-by-one to Christ is a very personal thing. God knows you, knows who you are, what you're made up of, and what your weaknesses are-- and He called YOU!

There's power in that hope. He's at Mount Horeb now. He's in this cave, and God would now demonstrate to Elijah how His power can and will be manifested in all kinds of unusual ways.

Now, let's go to the next methodology of God to bring Elijah to a point of being able to move forward. 1 Kings 19:11-12:

[Jonathan] (35:20 - 35:44) "So He said, Go forth and stand on the mountain before the LORD. And behold, the LORD was passing by! And a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking in pieces the rocks before the LORD;

but the LORD was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake.

And after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire..."

[Rick] (35:44 - 36:27) You've got all this drama. The wind, the earthquake and the fire, and the rocks are being rent and things are shaking and you've got all those things. Perhaps Elijah sees this, and he sees these as demonstrations of God's power; His overwhelming ability to destroy sin, just like He did with the prophets of Baal.

He brought fire down from heaven to consume the sacrifice to show that God was powerful, but God wasn't in the show of great power. Perhaps that was Elijah's expectation, and yet God wasn't in any of those things.

Again, it's our expectation that we have, and God is saying, It's a little different than you think. It's a little different than you think. Let's go back to Dealing with Depression's Challenges:

[Jonathan] (36:27 - 36:56) As our depression internalizes and isolates our struggles, we want to be at least willing to notice and apply what God is willing to show us. Once again, even if this doesn't change our minds, it builds on the previous step of acknowledgment. This means we can now quietly begin cultivating the seeds that God's nourishment planted in our hearts.

Continued small steps lead to progress.

[Rick] (36:56 - 37:39) See, Elijah wasn't ready to change yet-- spoiler alert for the next segment. He wasn't ready, and even if it doesn't change our mind, it puts the pieces in place, and that's the point of this application.

Apply what God shows you, and just let it do what it's there to do, to nourish the seeds that are planted in our hearts so we can continue with the small, small steps, even if we feel like it's all worthless. Two things have become abundantly clear. First, Elijah is really lost in his discouragement

and second, God is overwhelmingly patient and present with him.

[Jonathan] (37:40 - 37:48) Following this experience in Elijah's life is distressing. The depth of despair is SO real. How did God break through it?

[Rick] (37:49 - 38:24) The dark distress of this experience is exactly what makes it so valuable to us. We are seeing how one of the mightiest prophets of all time suffered a sense of overwhelming defeat, and how God patiently and intentionally worked him through it. The point is, God DOES love His people.

God DOES care for His people. We simply need to find a way to see, appreciate, and accept what God is offering us: His love.

[Julie] (38:24 - 39:08) One more thing NOT to say to someone who's depressed from the Time Magazine article: "But you seem fine." This reflects a distorted view of depression, where people don't eat, don't sleep, don't go to work, they look terrible, they don't shower. Many people work very hard to mask their symptoms because of the stigma and shame, and because of fear of being a burden for their partners or loved ones.

Instead say: "I'm really glad you shared this with me. You don't have to pretend with me." When we meet someone's depression with curiosity instead of correction, and empathy instead of evaluation or advice, then we become part of their healing environment, and that can really change someone's life.

[Rick] (39:09 - 39:53) But it takes time. It really can change someone's life. I can't tell you how often sometimes somebody would say to me, if their spouse or one of their children or somebody they know is very, very struggling deeply, and they whisper to me, Rick, can you fix this?

The answer is no. No, but I can contribute, but I can be there.

That's what we all can do. That's the point. God through the angel, God Himself through the voice, He's showing us that you are not alone.

He's demonstrating that to Elijah every step of the way. That brings us to OUR THIRD DEPRESSION OBSERVATION. We had the INTERNALIZATION, we had the ISOLATION, and now it's INSULATION.

[Jonathan] (39:53 - 40:11) When dwelled upon, internalizing and isolation naturally bring us to the point of trying to insulate ourselves from outside influences. By insulating ourselves, we rationalize that our state is comfortable and acceptable when we know neither is true!

[Rick] (40:11 - 41:03) That's right. We look at our state and we say, well, this is where I'm going to be. I'm going to be okay there.

We know--we know that's not where we want to be, but we do that. We insulate, we make it so we don't feel anything now. There's whatever is changing on the outside, isn't going to affect what's happening here on the inside.

That's where Elijah was. He was being miraculously shown that God is present and above all. We look at this and say, well, this should change everything, right?

Look at all this great stuff God's doing for him. What many of us think should happen is not necessarily the final answer. It's not necessarily in God's plan, in His time.

Let's watch the patience of God unfold with Elijah as He is going to draw him carefully, slowly, and lovingly towards Him. 1 Kings 19:12-14:

[Jonathan] (41:04 - 41:07) "... after the fire, a sound of a gentle blowing."

[Julie] (41:08 - 41:19) There were all these dramatic things happening, but now there's just this gentle blowing. The point here is that God is all powerful, but His power is not always displayed in dramatic ways.

[Jonathan] (41:20 - 41:27) "When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his mantle (that's his outer garment) and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave... "

[Julie] (41:28 - 41:40) He didn't leave, but perhaps here is the beginning of an outward progress because he moves towards the gentle breeze. But next, God repeats the same question and gets the same answer.

[Jonathan] (41:40 - 42:01) "...And behold, a voice came to him and said, What are you doing here, Elijah? Then he said, I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with a sword.

And I alone am left; and they seek my life, to take it away."

[Rick] (42:01 - 42:34) He simply can't shake the ISOLATION. In his mind, he has INSULATED himself to dwell in the power of that isolation. He is telling Lord God Almighty, Jehovah in heaven, I'm alone.

I worked hard, and now I'm alone, and they're seeking my life. It's over for me. As long as he remained isolated, he could find no way out.

There would not be a way out. However, God Almighty would show him the way.

[Julie] (42:35 - 43:06) When we're isolated, Rick, we only end up getting feedback from ourselves. We become our own unreliable echo chamber. For those of us who lived through the COVID-19 pandemic, it was a sad example of INTERNALIZATION, ISOLATION and then INSULATION.

Humans are social creatures. I found a statistic in the first year of the pandemic, anxiety and depression globally increased by a massive 25%, according to the World Health Organization, with young people and women affected the most.

[Rick] (43:06 - 43:29) Those of us who don't experience depression, if we go back to how we felt in being taken away from everyone else, we're getting a taste, a little taste of what those who experience chronic depression go through. We want to just be available. Don't fix, just be available.

Let them know they're not alone. Let's get some more hope here, Julie, we can use it.

[Julie] (43:29 - 44:04) I love Psalm 16:8: "I have set the LORD continually before me; Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken."

Here, David is actively choosing to keep God at his right hand. I found something interesting in the commentaries. In ancient combat, warriors often carried their shield in their left hand and their weapon in their right.

The right side was more exposed. A trusted ally would stand guard on the right. Here, God is David's protector to shield and support.

David was not alone.

[Rick] (44:05 - 44:34) God is with him. Elijah, what are you doing here? And Elijah's having this conversation back.

He's not alone. He's not. That's the beauty of this.

God is showing him. He's still not in a place to be able to embrace it, but God doesn't stop showing him.

That's the power of the persistency of our Father in heaven. We've got this insulation issue. Let's go to OUR THIRD DEPRESSION SMALL STEP TOWARDS GODLY PEACE.

That word is simply ALLOW.

[Jonathan] (44:35 - 44:49) Simply allow the several small things that God has put before us to have an effect. Give God's providence and promises permission to occupy a space in our hearts and minds and take root!

[Rick] (44:50 - 45:37) Give those things permission. They don't enter without our permission. Okay, I'll make a little space.

Okay, I'll make a little more space because God's goodness is continually there. Here's what's happening with Elijah.

He's seen God's display, and he's been drawn to His presence in that breeze, that gentle breeze. Now, the next thing that's going to happen is Elijah is now going to be given work to do. He will also now be given a plain answer to his isolation.

Now, God's been answering it all along. He's been planting the seeds all along, and God is not worried that Elijah is not responding. Here's the next step.

Here's what God tells him next; 1 Kings 19:15-16, 18:

[Jonathan] (45:38 - 46:06) "The LORD said to him, Go, return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus, and when you have arrived, you shall anoint Hazael king over Aram (that's Syria); and Jehu the son of Nimshi you shall anoint king over Israel;

and Elisha the son of Shaphat... you shall anoint as prophet in your place. Yet I will leave 7,000 in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him."

[Julie] (46:06 - 46:22) Hallelujah! Elijah's efforts were not in vain as he had thought, but he was so depressed he couldn't see God's overarching plan. We need to always remember, no matter how bad things get, God has a plan and we are all in it.

[Rick] (46:22 - 47:07) Sometimes our capacity to see it takes a long time to develop, and that's okay. It's okay. You see how long it took Elijah?

It's okay. As long as we allow God's input and we crawl along just the way Elijah did, it's okay. He knows our frame.

He knows what we're made of. In Elijah's case, God told him unequivocally, you are not alone. God commanded Elijah to continue his mission of removing idolatrous leaders.

Anoint this king, anoint that king. He also revealed that seven thousand faithful men still lived in Israel. They were there the whole time.

They were there. He's not alone. This is what would set Elijah in motion again.

[Julie] (47:07 - 47:38) That seven thousand were there all along, but Elijah just didn't know about them. He had isolated himself. That's the problem with isolation.

It's hard to accept accurate news from the outside world. What's our hope? I love Psalm 18:1-2:

"I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my Rock, in whom I take refuge; my Shield and the horn of my salvation, my Stronghold."

[Rick] (47:38 - 48:14) God is my strength. The key factor is that those others that Elijah was to go to, God was their strength as well. Not only was Elijah not alone, but he was now going to be in the company of others who had the same source of strength that he had in spite of his own weakness as a human being.

He's this powerful prophet with great internal weakness, being greatly blessed by God Himself. That's the story here. Jonathan, Dealing with Depression's Challenges:

[Jonathan] (48:15 - 48:25) Depression thrives when we internalize our struggle, isolate ourselves from others and then put up walls to further insulate us from outside influences.

[Julie] (48:26 - 48:36) Our powerful and abiding hope is in the FACT that God is with us. We are not alone. Often, His presence can be felt through others around us who truly care about us.

[Jonathan] (48:37 - 48:51) Let us acknowledge His love, applying it to our faltering hearts and allow it to grow within us so our depression can begin to fall away and, small step by small step, be replaced with gratitude.

[Rick] (48:52 - 50:39) It doesn't happen immediately. We have to work at it little step by little step. It doesn't feel like anything takes effect, just like Elijah.

When we go through these things, folks, if we can just look at it and say, well, I'm kind of like Elijah, kind of like one of the great prophets of God who had a lot of internal strife and struggle. It's okay. A final hope scripture, Psalm 139:8-12:

"If I ascend to heaven, You (God) are there; If I make my bed in Sheol (the grave), behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the dawn, if I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, even there will Your hand lead me, and Your right hand will lay hold of me.

If I say, Surely the darkness will overwhelm me, and the light around me will be night, Even the darkness is not dark to You, and the night is as bright as day..."

The point here is very simple: GOD IS ALWAYS WITH US! If we are called to follow Jesus and we are trying, even if we continually falter and fall, He is still with us.

Even if it looks like it's continuously dark, His hand is there and can guide us. Let us look for those small things. For those of us who see others struggling, let's let them not be alone.

Don't try to fix. Be there to be their friend, to be patient with them, to support them so they can eventually, by God's grace, see things in a clearer way. Think about it.

Folks, we love hearing from our listeners. We welcome your feedback and questions on this episode and other episodes at ChristianQuestions.com. Coming up in our next episode: "Why Are Many Called If Only Few Are Chosen?"

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