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Our topic is: "What Defines Moral Behavior?" Part II Christians can be very hard-headed.
We all ascribe to following God's biblical standards and principles and yet we often argue amongst ourselves about what's right and what's wrong. What should we do? Should we just leave those who disagree to wallow in the error of their ways?
Here's Rick, Jonathan, and Julie.
[Rick] (0:37 - 0:46) Welcome everyone, I'm Rick. I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over twenty-five years. Julie, a longtime contributor, is also with us. Jonathan, what is our theme scripture for this episode?
[Jonathan] (0:47 - 0:58) Proverbs 2:6-7: "For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity."
[Rick] (0:59 - 1:51) Morality can be a tricky thing. For the most part, humans do want to behave in a moral fashion. The tricky thing is figuring out how to actually define what qualifies as moral behavior and what does not.
As Christians, this task of defining is supposed to be easier than for most because we have God's Word as our clear foundation for our moral principles. I say it's "supposed to be easier" because Christianity has demonstrated for thousands of years that claiming the name of Christ is far from a guarantee of moral behavior. What are we supposed to do with this? How do we take what God has clearly given us in His word and live it daily? How do we handle it when fellow Christians see aspects of God's moral principles in a different light than we do?
[Jonathan] (1:52 - 2:04) In our last episode, we laid out the groundwork for how morality is defined in our world today. Much of what we said came down to two phrases that identify what drives an individual's moral stance.
[Julie] (2:04 - 2:39) That was "subjective morality" versus "objective morality." Subjective morality refers to moral judgments and values based on personal feelings, opinions, perspectives. It acknowledges that beliefs can vary between individuals based on their experiences, their cultures, and circumstances.
Objective morality, on the other hand, means establishing moral rules and judgments that are universally valid and not subject to individual biases or preferences. Objective moral truths exist independently of what any particular person or group believes.
[Rick] (2:39 - 3:08) You have two different ways--very different ways--of looking at morality. We as Christians in our current sinful state fall into a category that mixes both of these approaches. We mix them both together.
Our challenge is to learn how to submit our subjective human morality to God's objective morality. We want to create an "objectively subjective" approach. Let me explain, all right?
[Julie] (3:08 - 3:09) Sounds easy.
[Rick] (3:10 - 3:32) Sure, if you can say that three times fast. An objectively subjective approach means that we want to be able to base our thinking on what comes from above, but process it through our imperfect state so that we can actually take what's imperfect, have it focused on what's above, and act accordingly-- an objectively subjective approach.
[Jonathan] (3:32 - 3:42) How DO we do this? Well, we need to look up first to get God's guidance, and then ask ourselves, where do we stand, and how do we apply it?
[Rick] (3:42 - 4:12) That's the point. Look up first, then figure out the rest. We're going to go through several ways of helping us do this according to Scripture. The first point is: Acknowledge that the differences in our individual worldly backgrounds fundamentally influence how we're able to accept, embrace and fully follow the clarity of God's objective moral compass. Our backgrounds dictate what we actually are able to accept.
[Jonathan] (4:12 - 4:19) We all see through the lens of our personal biases, our natural tendencies to see things one way or the other.
[Rick] (4:19 - 4:50) Right, and so that's where we are. That's just what humanity is. Let's take a look at an example of this, a scriptural example.
The Christians in Corinth came from a very pagan culture. Idol worship was fundamental to their lives. Enter Christianity into this pagan world, and the fact that idols have nothing to do with God and nothing to do with spiritual power, and they are just an abomination! Christianity says, huh, all of what you're used to? No more, no more. There's something much higher.
[Julie] (4:50 - 4:57) Well, let's look at 1 Corinthians 8:1. It says: "Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge..."
[Rick] (4:58 - 5:08) We know the truth! We know that we all have knowledge. We know the truth.
There is now no more bondage to these foolish idols. We are above that.
[Julie] (5:09 - 5:22) Continuing: "Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies." Even though this discussion Paul's going to have is over literal food, Paul starts with these shared principles of knowledge and love as a baseline, but with love being the more important.
[Jonathan] (5:23 - 5:28) Paul is setting up foundational teachings regarding morality and mutual respect.
[Rick] (5:29 - 6:03) This is important. He's setting up a basis of powerful objective morality and mutual respect. First, he's going to present the clear objective morality from above, from God, that we as Christians are bound to ascribe to.
What we're looking at now in 1 Corinthians 8 is, we're going to see how Paul reasons us through the objective morality from above, dealing with the subjective reality of humanity and our different perspectives. Let's go to 1 Corinthians 8:4-6:
[Jonathan] (6:03 - 6:31) "Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through him."
[Rick] (6:32 - 7:01) We've got a clear objective morality. God in heaven, Jesus is our Lord, nothing else matters. That's the objective morality.
Now, that's knowledge, and that knowledge is great knowledge, but it can be dangerous if it's taken out of context for how we apply it. We then look at Paul cautioning all in the brotherhood because they're not all equally positioned to easily embrace this incredible knowledge, this incredible truth.
[Julie] (7:01 - 7:26) Now let's look at Paul's world in that day. Gentile cities had these large temples devoted to many different gods, and in addition to worship feasts that they held at the temples, priests would daily offer meat to these idols. Just a note, never once did an idol actually eat the meat offering! Anyway, this meat would eventually be sold in the markets near the temple, usually at a reduced rate, they think, or served in temple restaurants.
[Jonathan] (7:26 - 7:53) What if I'm served this meat at my neighbor's house? Would it be a sin to eat it? Well, Paul continues in 1 Corinthians 8:7-8: "However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat."
[Rick] (7:53 - 8:27) We look at the reasoning of the Apostle here, and he's saying, look, the idol, the food, is not going to commend you to God, or the lack of food is not going to commend you to God, and if you do this and you violate your conscience, you've got trouble. Something is not right. What the Apostle is saying basically here is, look, it's okay if you struggle with this. It's okay if things aren't perfect as you move through this. You have to grow into it. God understands our subjective minds, and that's a very, very important baseline point for understanding how to build this "objectively subjective" approach.
[Julie] (8:28 - 8:43) Yeah, imagine how difficult it would be for a Corinthian Gentile who grew up in this society saturated by pagan gods and rituals, where eating at temple festivals would have been an important part of society, to build friendships and political ties.
[Jonathan] (8:43 - 8:59) They might say, I know the idol isn't real, so it's technically just meat, but I used to worship that idol. I can't even get close to anything having to do with it now that I worship the one true God. To me, eating that meat would be a compromise!
[Rick] (9:00 - 9:22) That's the point. That's the core of the matter. If somebody is in that position, we need to be able to recognize that.
Now the Apostle Paul focuses on the challenges for those who can fully embrace the objective truth of idolatry. This is now looking at those who get it, who are able to really see it and separate themselves. Here's what he says in 1st Corinthians 8:9-11:
[Jonathan] (9:23 - 9:59) "But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? For through your knowledge he who was weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died." Paul's position is we don't want our brethren devastated after eating idol-offered meat, thinking they have dishonored God. We don't want to hurt someone because their conscience is sensitive along a certain line.
[Julie] (9:59 - 10:11) We worship Jesus. If someone sees you eating this meat, they could get the wrong idea and think that Christians can worship other gods in this indirect way, so therefore don't mislead them by eating it.
[Rick] (10:12 - 10:18) You have the right to eat it. You have the ability to eat it. Paul says there's nothing wrong with it.
[Julie] (10:18 - 10:19) It's just meat.
[Rick] (10:19 - 10:55) Yet, he says, take care that this liberty of yours doesn't stumble others. Because if you don't take care, your knowledge, your liberty, can ruin he who is weak in faith.
Paul plainly calls the act of leading others toward actions that their consciences are not ready for, he calls it a sin. It's not an "oops," it's not, "oh do better next time," it's a sin! He's illustrating that knowledge easily can bring arrogance.
Back to 1st Corinthians chapter 8:12-13:
[Jonathan] (10:56 - 11:17) "And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will not eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble." Patience is an important quality we must have to support and encourage the brethren, but it's not easy.
[Julie] (11:17 - 11:42) Rick, as both you and our brother Apostle Paul here said, the sin is not eating the meat, it's hurting your brother. You know the meat is just meat; that's the knowledge. Eat it if no one is around who will be stumbled by it. Christian liberty is led by love, and love looks out for others. Just because we can doesn't mean we should. Put another way, sometimes it's better to do right than to be right.
[Rick] (11:42 - 12:09) Really that's what the core of this whole discussion is going to focus in on, is doing the right thing from an objective, godly perspective, and therefore being right from an objective, godly perspective, and trying to put my own sense of, "Yeah but I can. Yeah but, yeah but...." We don't want "yeah but"--we want honor God. That's where we want to go. What we need to be doing here is, we need to be fine-tuning our personal moral compass.
[Jonathan] (12:10 - 12:25) As imperfect human beings, our subjective minds are easily and often influenced by our individual backgrounds. It is one thing for us to accept this challenge for ourselves, and another thing to embrace and have compassion for it in others.
[Julie] (12:25 - 12:37) Think about this--how often do I stop and think about where my brother or sister might be struggling, and how often do I actively, actively support them in those struggles?
[Rick] (12:37 - 13:08) It's easy enough to take a look and say, okay yeah I can do this because I can; but am I just as aware of what I can do as I am aware of what others are having a challenge with, with what I can do? That's a big thing, and folks look, if you are striving to be a Christian, that's one of the main points. This is a real lesson in learning about and appreciating our fellow disciples.
How can we truly love the brotherhood if we don't know them?
[Jonathan] (13:09 - 13:17) This is a good start. How do we continue our attempts to live by God's standards when dealing with those who don't have such deep pagan backgrounds?
[Rick] (13:18 - 13:45) While our previous example focused on allowing one to overcome their own questionable background, our next example focuses on those of us who come from a more advantaged background. While Jewish Christians had a strong foundation in the Law of Moses--that's where Christianity was built up from--they had this strong foundation in the Law of Moses, they quickly found out that they would also need to rise above their own past.
[Jonathan] (13:46 - 13:59) Let's recall how God opened the door for Gentiles to be called to Christ through the Apostle Peter. His vision before being guided to Cornelius foretold a major issue that would challenge Jewish Christians moving forward.
[Julie] (14:00 - 14:47) Here's Peter's vision. We find it in Acts 10:11 -15: "...and he (that's Peter) saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, Get up, Peter, kill and eat! But Peter said, By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean. Again a voice came to him a second time, What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." God is telling Peter unequivocally, that which was once considered unapproachable is now the pathway going forward, and this is why he was told to go next to Cornelius, the Roman centurion who would be the first Gentile convert to Christianity.
[Jonathan] (14:48 - 14:53) This was quite the paradigm shift for the Jewish believer converting to Christianity.
[Julie] (14:53 - 14:53) Oh yeah.
[Rick] (14:54 - 16:35) It was enormous, because you were ceremonially clean or you weren't. Peter's like, no, I don't go there, never gone there. God is basically saying, it's time, it's time. This is how you go higher; you go higher than the Jewish Law. This vision opened the door for those Jews who were called to Christ to be released from the restraints of the ritual Law. It opened that door for that release.
God had clearly stated His objective morality here in this vision to Peter for all disciples of Christ to follow, and He put it into Peter's hands to spread the word, to let them know, this is okay. Why Peter? Because he had the voice that others respected.
God gives him this vision so that he can see what is to come. He is putting things, he's helping to create an "objectively subjective" approach. He's helping to see things first from above and then take where we are and have it rise up to meet that which is above.
Our second point in how do we do this? It's another acknowledgement. Matter of fact, all these points are acknowledgements: Acknowledge that even when we have a background that's blessed and righteous, just like the Jewish Christians did, we will still have to raise our moral consciousness higher by being open to all that Christian liberty offers. We're going to shift. We were in 1 Corinthians 8. We're going to go to Romans 14 because this chapter deals with the same issues from a different perspective and it goes even more deeply. Julie, let's get some background on Romans 14.
[Julie] (16:35 - 17:14) We looked up Albert Barnes' commentary on the Bible and they say this about Romans 14. This chapter we're going to read: "... is designed to settle some difficult and delicate questions that could not but arise between the Jews and Gentiles respecting food and the observance of particular days, rites, etc.... The converts to Christianity were from both Jews and Gentiles. There were many Jews in Rome; and it is probable that no small part of the church was composed of them. The New Testament everywhere shows that they were disposed to bind the Gentile converts to their own customs, and to insist on the observance of the peculiar laws of Moses."
[Rick] (17:15 - 17:38) "They were disposed to bind the Gentile converts to their own customs." Why were they like that? They were like that because that was the pathway to God.
You can't blame them for having that paradigm, that perspective, and what the Apostle Peter was shown is that is no longer the case. That's a hard change to make.
[Jonathan] (17:38 - 18:07) Let's look at Romans 14:1-2: "Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only." Now this Greek word for "weak" means to be feeble in any sense, not necessarily physically. For example, the Law was "weak" in relation to Christianity because it couldn't give the people permanent life.
[Rick] (18:07 - 18:40) Right. Paul is talking about people who have feeble faith. I mean, you think, well, that's not a very nice thing to say, but he's helping us understand by acknowledging that faith isn't equal in all circumstances with all individuals at all stages of their life.
By acknowledging that, we can learn how to make use of what we're given from above, that objective approach, so our subjective approach can rise up higher. That's what he's talking about, those who have feeble faith. That's how he introduces Romans 14.
[Julie] (18:40 - 19:09) Paul will now be blunt. Even though some have this feeble faith, it's not an excuse to minimize them. Our scriptures continue with Romans 14:3-4: "The one who eats is not to regard with contempt (meaning to write off) the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
[Rick] (19:09 - 20:36) Now you've got the tables really turned here. You've got the Jewish Christians being the ones who are looking at judging others, because what they saw as the baseline for faithfulness no longer is relevant. Now they're like, wait, wait, you can't be eating meat offered to idols. You can't do that! That is as unsacred as you could possibly be. You have this whole circumstance, and it's interesting that it's all about meat offered to idols. That's a great example, because it was a centerpiece of pagan culture and Jewish thinking. It was a centerpiece on both sides. He says, look, you don't look down on others with contempt.
You don't write them off when they're not able to handle something like that, and that's what would happen. If you've got the faith and the ability to understand it, it's easy to look down on them and say, "They're just such immature little babies. Just, it's ridiculous." That's contemptible! You're looking down upon them.
If you're the one who's having a struggle and watching that person look at you, you tend to judge them, like, who do you think you are? Who's right? Neither one of them.
That's the point. That's what the Apostle is talking about here. We're seeing this unfold, and there is resentment and push back on both sides of the issue as we learn to figure out how to get our morality up to a higher level, as we learn to fine-tune our personal moral compass.
[Jonathan] (20:36 - 20:47) Humanity grows comfortable with what they're exposed to. When called to Christ, we're called out of the comfort and into the clarity of God's objective morality.
[Julie] (20:47 - 21:05) Am I willing to put my own comfort aside and replace it with God's clarity? Further, am I willing to give others the space to raise their level of clarity up towards God's objective morality as well? I just heard a phrase: "Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up."
[Rick] (21:05 - 22:34) That is such an important aspect here. Am I willing to reach across and look at someone who may be struggling with something and say, it's okay? By the same token, am I willing to be the one struggling and say to those who've got it together, it's okay? We as Christians need to understand that in our dealings with one another, we need to put things in a perspective where we can actually communicate through the challenge. Communicate through the challenge. That's what Paul is teaching us in Romans chapter 14.
He's teaching us to create an "objectively subjective" approach. Reach up first to what comes from above, and then take what we have to offer and raise it up, and let it change and develop and meld into what comes from above, God's objective morality. Let's look at our third point, another acknowledgement: Acknowledge that whatever our background, our consciences will be drawn to God's objective morality when we are called. This drawing is a process of change. If we are called, folks, if we are called, we will be looking toward, what is it that God wants me to do?
There's the calling, that's what it is. It's what will You have me to do? It's looking up.
Now we take that thought, that acknowledgement, that we're all in that same boat, coming from different perspectives, and Paul is now going to show us that the weak in faith, those who are wrong on some things, they are still acceptable. They are still acceptable to God. Let's go to Romans 14:5:
[Jonathan] (22:34 - 22:42) "One person regards one day above another; another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind."
[Julie] (22:42 - 22:47) But question: Why would God accept someone if we know for sure that they're wrong?
[Rick] (22:48 - 23:18) Because they want to be right in God's sight. They want to raise up higher, but they're starting in a disadvantaged position. That's the beauty of God's mercy and God's grace, and that's the beauty of the example that Jesus gave us. He hung out with the sinners, remember that? He hung out with the ones who were wrong. Why?
Because he saw the hearts that they wanted to be right before God. He understands our subjective challenges. Let's go to the next verse, Romans 14:6:
[Jonathan] (23:19 - 23:31) "He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."
[Rick] (23:31 - 24:09) You have a commonality. Both are doing what they're doing the best they can, and everybody is doing the same thing. They're giving thanks to God.
Julie, when you go back to your question: Yeah, but what if they're wrong? They're trying to be right in God's eyes. The beauty and the relief, the absolute relief, is that we can take heart in the fact that in our wrongness, but in our desire to be godly, He can see that. He can see our heart on both sides of this. Conscience is clear and directed toward honoring God on both sides of any issue. But the knowledge part, the knowledge part, is the unclear part.
[Jonathan] (24:09 - 24:15) Even though we can be wrong in some cases, God sees the heart and knows we have growth potential.
[Rick] (24:16 - 24:23) That is what the Apostle is teaching us. Let's go to Romans 14:7-8:
[Jonathan] (24:23 - 24:35) "For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's."
[Rick] (24:35 - 25:08) Think about that for a second. Before it was eating and giving thanks or not eating and giving thanks. Now it's living for the Lord or dying for the Lord. No matter what, Paul is looking at Christians on both sides of these issues of contention, of serious contention in their society, and saying, you guys are all about the same thing.
He's saying to us, let's be sure that we embrace the fact that your brothers and sisters, who you don't see doing it the right way in these ways, are really working toward being honoring to God. It's a very beautiful picture here.
[Julie] (25:08 - 25:38) I want to just backtrack. Romans 14:5 that you read, Jonathan, said "one person regards one day above another," another says it's all alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
That's using our conscience. I think there can be, though, a danger in using this excuse of, oh, my conscience is fine to continue with sinful behavior, because I can convince myself that this or that is okay. Humans are great at justifying and compartmentalizing.
Eventually, my conscience isn't even tweaked, so I'm okay.
[Rick] (25:38 - 26:16) No, you're not, and here's why. Because once we settle in to saying, well, it's my conscience, and I'm okay with that, we've settled in to rejecting God's objective morality and saying, it's okay just where I am.
We've stopped reaching up, stopped stretching ourselves, and that's the key. That's what we all have to do. We have to say, this is where I am, but this is not where God wants me to stay, and I need to grow beyond it.
What do we need to do? We need to be fine-tuning our personal moral compass. Again and again and again, we need to fine-tune that personal moral compass.
[Jonathan] (26:16 - 26:30) As imperfect human beings, our best vision of things can be cloudy because of our experiences, our preferences and traditions. It is easier to see this happen to others, even while it may be happening to ourselves.
[Julie] (26:31 - 26:47) Oh, it's so easy to look at it in someone else. Let's look in our mirrors. Grab your mirror.
When we see others striving for God's objective perspective, we need to learn respectful tolerance. How well do I give others the right to be right before God, even if I think that they're wrong?
[Jonathan] (26:47 - 26:52) There's a danger in rejecting others who don't think like we do.
[Rick] (26:53 - 27:13) We need to have not just tolerance, but godly, respectful tolerance. That's what the Apostle Paul is teaching us here. Different circumstances and the same conclusion.
That's what we're seeing. We are to be cautiously aware to recognize the sincere dedication of our brotherhood.
[Jonathan] (27:13 - 27:19) Are we saying that we should always give other Christians encouragement, no matter what they say they believe?
[Rick] (27:20 - 28:55) No, no, nothing could be further from the truth, and we don't want to go running down that pathway saying, I'm free to do what I want. It's not at all what we're saying. On the contrary, we are to be alert to hold them up and encourage them towards the highest standards of God's objective morality that we and they are capable of.
This becomes a challenge of always putting aside convenience and replacing it with focused conviction to do God's will. As we go through this segment, one of the things we want to look at is certain things, Julie, like you're saying, conscience isn't even tweaked. That's convenient, but it is not focused conviction because the conviction is higher than me.
If my conviction settles in at where I am, then my conviction needs to be reworked because we need to have it always, always higher. This is why we keep talking about creating an "objectively subjective" approach, objectively looking up to God first and His moral principles given us in scripture, and then saying, well, where am I? How can I reach up higher and higher and higher?
Our fourth point on how to do this is another acknowledgement: Acknowledge that a recognition of an encouragement for one another must always have a fundamental attachment to God's clear and objective morality. That's where the lifeline is.
If that's not our lifeline, we better cut the line we've got and throw that one out because that's the one we need.
[Julie] (28:56 - 29:27) This is really important because we're confronted with these moral questions, little and big, throughout our entire day. We ask ourselves, do we look for a convenient way out or are we driven by some deeply convicted, objective belief that came from God? Let's look at Romans 14:9-12: "For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt?"
[Rick] (29:28 - 29:55) Let's pause there for a second. Again, it's bringing up judging and contempt. Judging and contempt are the easy, are the convenient ways out. It's really easy to write somebody off or to judge them to say, well, that's just where they are, too bad about them. That is not even remotely close to what a Christian attitude is. Besides all of this, the judgment and contempt doesn't even belong to us. Julie, let's continue that scripture.
[Julie] (29:55 - 30:10) "For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD. So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God."
[Jonathan] (30:11 - 30:19) Whichever side or whatever issue we're on, don't judge or write off those on the other side! We all will ultimately stand before God.
[Rick] (30:19 - 30:52) That's the bottom line. The Apostle in Romans 14 is showing us yes, you have great conviction behind where you are and whatever side of these issues you're on, but the bottom line is, God does the judging. You don't. So make sure, make sure, that we stay in line with that objective morality that the Apostle keeps showing us and keeps guiding us towards. Here's what it looks like to replace acting in a convenient way with acting in a convicted way. Here are the words of Jesus, Matthew 5:7-9:
[Jonathan] (30:52 - 31:02) "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."
[Julie] (31:03 - 31:26) We've talked about this in previous episodes. There's a difference between "peacemaking"-- that's when you reconcile the parties who are at odds; and "peace keeping"-- those who preserve the peace at all costs. I think churches today struggle with this because in their quest for unity and inclusion, their come-as-you-are invitation without having to change, might be encouraging people to stay comfortable in their sins.
[Rick] (31:27 - 32:32) It is. That is one of the very, very, very large points that need to be made according to Scripture here. This is not about, well, somebody's conscience is bringing them down another road, so just let them go.
No, if our consciences don't have a sense of God's objective morality, then we need to grow out of where we are and into where we need to be. This is not about how we look. It's about how we act.
It's not about what we say. It's about what we do, what's in our hearts. Peacemaking seeks to solve issues, like you said, and solving an issue versus just keeping the peace at all costs is a difficult task. It is not for the faint of heart. That's why Jesus put that into the Beatitudes as the seventh Beatitude. "Blessed are the peacemakers," because this is kind of a culmination of what our lives, our Christian lives, should look like. Let's look at how do we put that into practice, having God's objective morality right in front of us. Galatians 6:1-3:
[Jonathan] (32:32 - 32:53) "Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself."
[Rick] (32:53 - 33:29) See, this scripture is outwardly telling us everybody's not okay. Now somebody falls into a sin. They may be justifying it and rationalizing it in their own subjective little brains.
But if we see that as a fellow Christian, we should reach out to help. Bear one another's burdens. If someone's caught in a trespass, you don't judge them.
You don't look at them with contempt. You reach out to help them reach up. That's what this scripture is telling us.
It's not about just letting people be. It's about being with the people and bringing all of us up higher.
[Jonathan] (33:29 - 33:58) Rick and Julie, I personally struggle along these lines. I grew up in a church system and struggled with some of their doctrinal teachings, which in my opinion misrepresented God. To this day, I have to be very careful not to judge those that have been taught false unscriptural beliefs. I don't want to be negative towards them because it's the system that's accountable before God. Love must override my personal feelings.
[Rick] (33:58 - 34:37) That's hard. It's hard because you walked away from all that and you're like, well, how can that be? How can that possibly be?
Yet when we see individuals who are there in all of their sincerity, we look at them with love. That's what Jesus does. That's what we are called upon to do.
What this comes down to is the personal battle inside. It's the battle between the passion that we feel on an issue, Jonathan, like you just said, and the principle behind the issue, and that's a challenging battle. It's easier to follow emotion.
We often mistake our "passion" for "principle," even if we are right. That is a danger!
[Julie] (34:37 - 34:44) That's the whole point of this. We have to understand our subjective weakness in this versus God's objective clarity. We keep looking up.
[Jonathan] (34:45 - 35:07) We can see the ideas of principles versus passion here in Romans 14:13-15, and principle says: "Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself..."
[Julie] (35:07 - 35:19) But (continuing) passion says: "...but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean." Passion also says: "For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love."
[Jonathan] (35:19 - 35:35) But principle says (continuing): "Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died." This is an important lesson. I came up with this phrase to remind myself: "When we have principle and passion, remember compassion."
[Rick] (35:35 - 36:22) That's exactly the point. That's a very good catchphrase because passion can easily override compassion, but we need to turn the tables and our compassion must override that passion. That's what we're being taught in Romans 14. You may be one hundred percent right in what you say and what you see and what you believe and what you're convicted by. When someone else doesn't see it that way, we need to have the capacity to recognize their journey and have respect for that journey. But we have to be careful when it comes to especially deep moral issues.
We can't be just blasé when it comes to working through those. Let's look at another scripture, Galatians 5:16-17.
[Jonathan] (36:22 - 36:41) Listen again for principle versus passion: "But I say, walk by the spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please."
[Julie] (36:41 - 36:51) We can have the knowledge, we can be correct, but we still have to apply it in the way that best honors God. Our own passions and ego can really get in the way. We need to watch out for that.
[Rick] (36:51 - 36:53) Enter compassion.
[Julie] (36:53 - 36:55) That's right. Good job.
[Rick] (36:55 - 39:05) That's the overriding principle. Just because we might be right does not mean that our passion will appropriately communicate that right perspective. That's important to realize. Let me give you a personal example. This was several years ago. This was a very difficult experience to work through.
There was one of the brotherhood who was in a situation where they were in a very, very sinful circumstance. They just were. Got wind of it.
Loved the individual very, very much as a Christian and was angry at what was happening. But I realized that my anger wasn't going to help them, so I called them and said, can I come see you? They said, sure. I drove whatever distance I had to drive, and I sat with them at their table and we went over what was happening. They basically told me, well, look, I believe that I'm right before God. I said, really? Now understand my blood is boiling because it is wrong.
It is wrong before God and the scriptures are abundant. I took a breath because you have to have that compassion, Jonathan, just like you said. I said, okay, really? I took my Bible and I slid it across the table and I said, show me. If you're right before God, you show me in the book. I'll wait. The individual started to sweat and stutter and stammer. I looked at them and said, come on, we both know that it's not in there. We both know that there's something wrong here, and I want you to understand I'm on your side. I want you to be able to stand up again, but we can't go on like this. We need to make a decision. As I pulled my Bible back and we finished the conversation, I said to them, I said, look, give it some thought and I'll talk to you in a couple of days. I want to see where you are. But I am with you in being godly. It was a real exercise of holding back what I really felt to reach out and to be loving and kind and compassionate in drawing them back to a standing position instead of being fallen into sin.
[Julie] (39:06 - 39:07) How did it end? Did they draw back?
[Rick] (39:07 - 39:17) They did. They turned the table. They were apologetic.
They realized it and they changed their direction by God's grace.
[Julie] (39:17 - 39:17) Wow.
[Rick] (39:17 - 39:35) Let's get back to these scriptures.
Now, Paul now brings us to the practical lesson of caring for those with whom we disagree. Remember, he's telling those on both the right and wrong sides the same thing. He's telling everybody, look, whether you are right or wrong, you need to adjust. Let's look at Romans 14:16-19.
[Jonathan] (39:36 - 40:01) This is from the NIV <Editor's note: New International Version> translation: "Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the holy spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification."
[Rick] (40:02 - 40:47) That's a beautiful, beautiful scripture. We want to understand that sometimes what is good, what we think is right can be spoken of as evil. Why would a "good thing" be construed as evil? Because of the way we treat others who sees things differently, because of the way we present the goodness and purity of God's word, we can present it in a way that it beats people over the head and it does damage. Judgment and contempt contaminate our strongly held righteous positions. Please, let's be careful.
This is what the Apostle Paul is telling us. Be careful. Don't let yourself get stuck there.
Subjective morality and emotion easily misguide our caring actions; very, very easily can misguide them.
[Julie] (40:47 - 41:11) We have a great example in Ephesians 4:29, 32: "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."
[Rick] (41:11 - 41:33) Folks, the scriptures are...they pour out this kind of advice. "No unwholesome words," "kind" and "forgiving." Don't give in on morality, but be kind and forgiving and helpful and hopeful and working along with others so that we can grow together.
It comes down to fine tuning our personal moral compass again and again and again.
[Jonathan] (41:34 - 41:48) Our interactions with other Christians while in an earthly environment ought not to be driven by our humanity. On the contrary, we're given many tools to transform our communications to be in accordance with godly morality.
[Julie] (41:48 - 41:52) The Bible's clear. God was clear. The question is, am I paying attention?
[Jonathan] (41:52 - 42:02) The big takeaway for me is even though I may be right, how do I glorify God without harming someone I think is in the wrong?
[Rick] (42:02 - 42:14) Something tells me it has to do with that little word "compassion." The message is simple and clear. Always have our thoughts and actions based on the immovable and objective principles of God.
[Jonathan] (42:14 - 42:22) All of this sounds difficult. How can we focus ourselves on doing what needs to be done in the way it needs to be done?
[Rick] (42:22 - 43:37) Right. It is difficult. This is always the big question. How do we do it to find the answer? We simply need to follow the right path and gather up the right details.
Well, yeah, that's pretty obvious. But how? As Paul begins to wrap up this incredibly important teaching in Romans 14, he points out that there are cold, hard facts of the most important things that can make or break our brotherly interactions and fellowship.
There are clear pieces of guidance that if we apply them and put them into place, we can begin to rise up above these things. By doing so, we are creating an objectively subjective approach. We are looking up first.
We are looking at the word of God and saying, how do I take where I am and apply where I am to what that word, that lofty word, says so I can be better and stronger and more honoring to God? Our fifth point of acknowledgement is: Acknowledge that because we are subjective human beings, our relationship with the brotherhood can easily go wrong. Or if we apply the right dedicated effort, it can be blessed and go right. That's the point. It can easily go wrong, easily. But we need to focus so we can have it become glorifying to our Father.
[Julie] (43:37 - 44:07) Again, I go back to just because we can doesn't mean we should. 1 Corinthians 6:12 says: "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable." We're talking about Christian liberty and it isn't "anything goes." But the problem is because it's subjective, the "me" gets in the way. The Old Testament Law was black and white: Do this, don't do that. The law of liberty seems much grayer because your liberty decision might be different from mine. Who's right? It becomes how we treat each other.
[Rick] (44:07 - 45:15) The Old Testament Law was simpler because it was basically God said this and God said that. What happened, though, is that the Jewish leaders took that objective Law and they made it subjective. They created all these rituals and all of these interpretations surrounding it, and they were constantly arguing with Jesus about it. Jesus is telling them, you've made the objective Law of God subjective. The Law was more clear, but it still was easily corruptible. That's why we have to look at our own Christianity. It can be easily corruptible. This all comes down to action.
The Apostle just brought us the lesson on how to truly care for one another, and now he brings lessons relating to the potential results, the results, of how we interact. We are either--here's another one-- we are either "subjectively divisive" or "objectively decisive." Understand whenever you hear that word "subjective," beware, because the end result oftentimes isn't good. Subjectively divisive or objectively decisive.
Let's hear how the Apostle explains this in Romans 14:20-21:
[Jonathan] (45:16 - 45:38) "Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. It is good not to eat meat or drink wine, or do anything by which your brother stumbles." Romans is saying put people first and we'll have to keep that highest objective morality.
[Rick] (45:38 - 45:47) When he says "do not tear down the work of God," he's not talking about the meat or the day or anything else. He's talking about the person. They are the work of God.
[Julie] (45:48 - 45:49) Oh, that makes sense.
[Rick] (45:49 - 46:25) Don't tear it down. Any sense of condescension or competition can make our expressions of scripturally correct perspectives into scripturally damaging actions. We can be scripturally right, but we can take it and we can hurt others with it.
The Apostle is spending an entire chapter in Romans saying, beware, this is where we all need to raise up. Let's look at an example of this, an example of well-meaning, divisive actions that are corrected in a godly and decisive manner. Going to go to 1 Corinthians 3:4-7:
[Jonathan] (46:25 - 46:50) "For when one says, I am of Paul, and another, I am of Apollos, are you not mere men? What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth."
[Julie] (46:50 - 46:59) The Corinthians here were starting to become "groupies" of different Christian leaders, and that was causing division in the church. We're all supposed to be unified around Jesus.
[Rick] (46:59 - 47:33) That was the point. The Apostle says, here is a clear way. This is a lesson in stepping back and seeing the bigger picture.
Stop already. It's nice that you appreciate me. It's nice that you appreciate Apollos.
But what we need to do is, we need to appreciate God Almighty and our Lord Jesus. We are just servants of those things. It's about seeing the big picture. We're all but very small cogs in the powerful machinery of the body of Christ. We play a small role and we need to understand the significance of the rest of those who are around us.
[Julie] (47:33 - 47:50) Yeah, and while we are part of the body of Christ, are we working for the body or our own agenda? How deeply and honestly have we dug into all of our own subjective tendencies relating to standing for godly, objective morality? They get mixed up.
[Rick] (47:50 - 48:12) They do. Are there flaws in how I believe and how I express what I stand for? Are there flaws in that?
We have to ask ourselves that question because that question reveals a lot of areas where we can grow into Christ, out of ourselves objectively and put away the subjective piece.
[Jonathan] (48:13 - 48:21) No one is perfect. The truth is we're all faulty. Patience and love are two character traits that need to be front and center.
[Rick] (48:22 - 49:02) Patience and love and compassion... those are very, very important key words for putting this entire lesson together. Now, let's go and begin to wrap up Romans 14.
As we finish Romans 14, we see the Apostle Paul now urging all who may be involved in one of those "I stand for right principles and you stand in compromise" arguments-- he's telling all of us who get into that situation to seriously check the foundation of our own individual faith and be sure of its source. He's telling us, look inside, stop looking across the aisle, look inside, look at you, look and see what is driving you.
Let's go to Romans 14:22-23:
[Jonathan] (49:02 - 49:19) "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin."
[Rick] (49:19 - 50:28) Listen to that phrase in that scripture: "Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves." Well, wait, how would I condemn myself if I approve of something?
It's because I condemn myself by the way I present it to others. That's the problem. It is our interaction that is condemnatory.
That can happen because of peer pressure and the heat of the moment. Look, we've all been there. Peer pressure in the heat of the moment can open our spiritually and morally correct stand-- we could be absolutely one hundred percent right in what we see scripturally--to becoming detrimental to ourselves and others. We've been saying this again and again and again.
Why do we keep repeating it? Here's a really simple answer to that; because the Apostle Paul keeps repeating it. That's why, because it's that important and it's that natural to fall into this.
Are we humble enough to be guided by the highest spiritually objective morality, no matter what the personal consequences might be? Am I standing strong enough to say, "Whatever comes to me, let it come. I will stand for that which is higher from me, from my subjective little place. I'm going to grow into something bigger."
[Julie] (50:28 - 51:14) One of my favorite sets of scriptures will fit in nicely here. Philippians 4:4-8: "Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus." That was beautiful, but listen to how this ends in verse 8: "Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things."
[Rick] (51:14 - 52:03) The apostle in Philippians tells us, let your gentle spirit be obvious. Here's an idea. Wear your gentle spirit as the jacket on the outside of your life.
"Be anxious for nothing." Put things in prayer. With "prayer and supplication" give thanks. Then, as you put those things in place, think on those things that are good and righteous and wholesome and upbuilding. That's what brings us to the place where we can now have a much more objective morality because we are drawing from above instead of drawing from ourselves or from below or from around. Our subjective thinking needs to be challenged with God's objective principles and His morality, and we need to rise up there. We need to fine tune our personal moral compass.
[Jonathan] (52:03 - 52:19) Humans, be they Christian or not, are subjective beings. While our ability to adapt to our circumstances is a good thing, we as Christians need to do that adapting in a clear harmony with God's objective moral principles.
[Julie] (52:19 - 52:34) The challenge is well worth the effort. Here's my last question for us all to consider: How well am I rising up, taking and embracing this challenge, knowing that by doing so I will glorify God?
It's serious.
[Rick] (52:35 - 52:45) Isn't that the most important thing, though? When you look at the whole thing, is it more important to be "right," or to give honor to our Heavenly Father? I know, I know the answer.
[Jonathan] (52:45 - 52:46) Honor to God.
[Rick] (52:46 - 53:39) You know the answer. We all know the answer.
Folks, how do we live the answer? How do we take the answer and put it into a position where it begins to dominate our thinking? It starts by planting the small seeds of compassion and love and humility and allowing them to grow so that my interactions with you will not be based on "I'm right, you're wrong." They'll be based on you are a brother or sister in Christ, and I want to fellowship and grow alongside of you. That's God's objective morality for the body of Christ. Think about it.
Folks, we love hearing from our listeners. We welcome your feedback and questions in this episode and other episodes at ChristianQuestions.com. Coming up in our next Episode: "What Does The Smoke of Their Torment Rising Up Forever Mean?"
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