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[Announcer] (0:00 - 0:39) Think about the Bible like you never have before. You're listening to Christian Questions. Experience more episodes, videos, and Bible study resources at ChristianQuestions.com.

Our topic is: "Should Christians Be Politically Driven?" Politics; just saying the word can unleash a fury of emotion, texting, posting, liking, or condemning. We live in a time when reasonable political discussions are rare and political agitation is common. As Christians, we need to ask, how did Jesus handle the politics of his day? Are we acting the way he acted?

Here's Rick, Jonathan, and Julie.

[Rick] (0:40 - 0:50) Welcome everyone, I'm Rick. I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over 25 years, and Julie, a longtime contributor, is also with us. Jonathan, what's our theme scripture for this episode?

[Jonathan] (0:51 - 1:05) John 18:36: "Jesus answered, my kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, my kingdom is not of this realm."

[Rick] (1:05 - 2:00) The world of politics IS our world. It is incredibly difficult to go through a typical day of interactions and online activity without being bombarded with some form of political activism or opinion or outrage. With political victory comes power, and with power comes authority, and with authority comes the ability to shape the lives and direction of the masses.

Because of where we are in the stream of time, the grip of politics is not likely to let up at all. On the contrary, it is likely to grow and dominate. What is our role as Christians?

Should we apply ourselves to get involved, so we can bring sound thinking, righteousness and integrity to the process for the greater good of all people? Or should we stay away from the whole process, knowing that it is ultimately going to fall apart anyway?

[Jonathan] (2:00 - 2:19) To understand what Jesus taught us about being involved in politically-driven issues, we need to first understand how the politically-driven powers of his day functioned. What we'll see is a dramatic difference from when God established Israel as a sovereign nation after the release from Egyptian slavery.

[Julie] (2:20 - 2:47) God created government. At that beginning, God was their king, and their original form of secular government was through Moses and their representative before God. That secular setup later developed into a system of judges.

Centuries later, they clamored for a king. God granted them King Saul against His strong advice, and still Israel was to adhere to God's Law and His will. Israel's governance was in all circumstances to be God-driven.

[Rick] (2:47 - 3:18) You have a snapshot of Israel's history. God's in the middle, God's in the front, God's the king. That's the way it was supposed to have been. Let's move on to Jesus at his first advent, because here at Jesus' first advent, Israel was entrenched in the iron grip of the Roman Empire. They couldn't have a king, they couldn't do what they wanted. They were given leeway to be able to rule themselves as long as they paid their taxes and they posed no threat to the rule of Rome.

[Jonathan] (3:19 - 3:21) Great. Pay us and don't cause any trouble.

[Rick] (3:21 - 3:40) That's right! That's exactly, exactly right. There was tremendous leeway as long as they stayed in accordance with those rules.

Let's look at this period of time and let's quickly define some of the diverse, politically-charged, influential groups in Israel in Jesus' day.

[Julie] (3:40 - 3:55) We're going to look at five political and religious groups of people; there were other groups like the Galileans, the Herodians, Levites, and the Samaritans that we're not going to get into today. We're going to include some excerpts from an online document from Liberty University. It's a Christian university in Virginia.

[Jonathan] (3:55 - 4:39) Some of these groups were organized well before Rome and the time of Jesus. For example, we begin with the Scribes, who were organized back in the days of Ezra. "Scribes (also called experts in religious law), were the students, interpreters, and teachers of the Old Testament scriptures. Scribes had great power in Jewish society and were often called upon to settle disputes." Some translations call them "lawyers." They were called "Scribes" because back in the days of King Hezekiah, their work was to transcribe old records and put in writing what had been handed down orally. The Scribes wanted to make the Law of Moses the rule of life for the nation and individuals.

[Julie] (4:39 - 5:24) The next group we want to talk about is the Pharisees. We've all heard of those. "The Pharisees, who came to prominence around 100 BC during the time of the Maccabees, were known as the champions and guardians of Israel's written and oral law. ...They numbered about six thousand in Christ's day." Now, the Pharisees were more the religious teachers of Israel. The name "Pharisee" means "separated ones," and they did separate from the Gentiles and other Jews who weren't keeping the rituals of the Law like they were. The Pharisees controlled the local synagogues. They added more details to the Law. They wanted to dictate exactly what every Jewish person could and could not do.

This was called the "oral tradition of interpretations," and that was a big area of contention with our next group, the Sadducees.

[Jonathan] (5:24 - 5:42) Well, the Sadducees take their name "from Zadok, the high priest during the reign of Solomon. The Sadducees came into prominence at about the same time as the Pharisees, a century before Christ. The Sadducees were the Jewish aristocrats of Christ's day and held most seats on the Sanhedrin."

[Julie] (5:43 - 5:47) The Sanhedrin was the Jewish Supreme Court for both religious and legal matters.

[Jonathan] (5:47 - 6:10) As the "insiders" of the priestly class, they accepted only the written Law and rejected the oral traditions popular with Pharisees. The Sadducees were the priests performing the functions of the Temple. However, they were influenced by Greek philosophy and were more into the politics and into the running of the state rather than the religious elements that they should have been involved in.

[Julie] (6:10 - 6:19) There's a real strong division between these two groups. To put it simply, the Sadducees are after the political power and the Pharisees were after religious power.

[Rick] (6:19 - 7:06) The Scribes were all about making sure everybody lived up to the Law. Here's what you had; you had these three groups. They were the political powers. They were the driving force of what Jesus was born into, what he was raised in and around. They were the ones who had the power because they controlled the law and its interpretation and its application from those three different perspectives.

We've got those three. They are the ruling powers within Israel as far as Israel could go at that point. Now let's look at the other two groups. Let's move on to those organized as a result of the Roman Empire, of the Roman rule. You had these three groups; the Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees there long before. Now you've got Roman rule.

Here's where we go.

[Julie] (7:07 - 7:47) We've got the Publicans. These are the public officials "authorized by Rome to collect taxes from the Jews for that Empire. Because of this, they were hated and despised by the Jews who associated them with terrible sinners..." They even called them harlots and outright pagans.

"It was the basest of all livelihoods. The strong feeling of many Jews as to the absolute unlawfulness of paying tribute to Rome at all made matters worse. In addition to the reputation of cheating people, the Publicans of the New Testament were regarded as traitors and apostates, willing tools of the oppressor." Nobody liked the Publicans except the Romans.

[Jonathan] (7:47 - 8:02) Next, the Zealots. "The Zealots were an intensely nationalistic sect, anti-Roman to the core, advocating that Israel should return to a theocracy form of government. They were the direct opposite of the tax-collecting Publicans."

[Rick] (8:02 - 8:36) We're adding these Publicans and these Zealots. They weren't in a position of being in political power, but they had political influence, influence over the people of their day from one perspective or another. We've got these five groups that we're highlighting, and the reason we've chosen these five groups is to understand what politics meant then to a Christian, to Jesus and his followers, and what it should mean to us now. Jonathan, we'll pause here. People, Politics, and Scriptural Principles; where are we beginning?

[Jonathan] (8:36 - 8:56) Outside of the Publicans, who simply worked for Rome and were generally hated as a result, each of these other groups represented widely diverse perspectives as to how to cope with Roman rule. One could argue that any of these approaches had great value, and yet they were not known to get along too well between themselves.

[Julie] (8:56 - 9:03) We want to ask a modern-day question: What similarities do we see to our present-day politically-driven ideologies?

[Rick] (9:04 - 10:14) When you think about it, you look back at these different groups and take a look at them and place their perspectives into our present day, and you can see how it all kind of fits. Here's what it comes down to; different groups of individuals with a different set of ideologies that are trying to apply those ideologies to the people around them. That's what you have. That's really what politics grows from, these different ideologies. The Pharisees and the Scribes were very much working along the lines of the Law. The Sadducees wanted to narrow it down. Three different perspectives to show you three different ways to guide and influence the people. The Publicans worked for the bad guys. Nobody liked them. The Zealots wanted to kill the bad guys. A lot of people wished they would succeed. Doesn't that sound like where we are today? You can grab hold of different ways of looking at things. Now, let's take that and let's look at the effect that John the Baptist had on any or all of these politically-charged groups. This is a very interesting perspective here. Let's first look at his effect on the Pharisees and the Sadducees in Matthew 3:7-10:

[Jonathan] (10:15 - 10:45) "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, We have Abraham for our father; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

[Julie] (10:45 - 11:06) This is strong language. In other words, don't be too comfortable with your pedigree, because God is about to reverse the roles of blessing because you haven't been doing what you're supposed to be doing. If you don't bear fruit, you'll be removed.

I like the way the New Living Translation puts this fruit-bearing in verse 8: "Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God."

[Rick] (11:06 - 11:42) This was a very, very, very different approach to the Pharisees and Sadducees. Most people just got out of their way because they looked holy, they acted holy, they knew more than the average person. But John the Baptist stands up to them and says, you're a sinner just like everybody else.

You need to live in a repentant way, or "the axe is laid at the root of the trees." The power that you have is going to be cut right out from under you. That's his influence, that's his response to these two very powerful groups in the nation of Israel at that point. What about the Scribes? Let's look at Luke 7:28-30.

[Jonathan] (11:42 - 12:17) Listen for the word "lawyers" because it's referring to the Scribes: "I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and the lawyers (the Scribes) rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John." The Scribes ignored the opportunity of John's baptism. We don't have any report of them directly interacting with John.

[Rick] (12:17 - 12:39) They stay away from him. Why? Because he's just out of their realm.

They don't want anything to do with him. But the Scriptures tell us that they did not engage in the activity and the guidance that John was giving in preparation for Jesus. The Scribes did not interact with John. Well, what about the Publicans? Let's look at Luke 3:12-13:

[Julie] (12:40 - 13:04) "And some tax collectors (that's the Publicans) also came to be baptized, and they said to him, Teacher, what shall we do? And he said to them (this is John), Collect no more than what you've been ordered to." They came to John with humility, and he encouraged them to have integrity.

Do what you're supposed to do in the most righteous way that you can. It's interesting to me that he didn't tell them to quit their jobs, he just said, don't cheat the people.

[Rick] (13:04 - 13:18) What we have here, then, is the Publicans actually responded to John. Remember, they're the ones who are hated by everybody else. Remember this thought, because it's going to come back around several times.

Jonathan, what else do we have?

[Jonathan] (13:18 - 13:32) What about the Zealots? We have no Scriptures that show John interacting with the Zealots. Well, why not?

Perhaps they saw him as too weak and too focused on repenting when they were all about fighting and conquering.

[Julie] (13:32 - 13:46) Of the five groups we've looked at in their interactions with John the Baptist, so far it looks like only some of those Publicans respond as having a heart for God. Notice, John isn't trying to work within these groups and their political leanings.

[Rick] (13:46 - 14:02) Yeah, he's not saying to any of them, hey, you know, hey, we could work together and we can get the people to repent. This is an important principle, and then we'll look at what Jesus did next. But just let's focus in on John here for a moment.

Jonathan, People, Politics, and Scriptural Principles; where are we thus far?

[Jonathan] (14:03 - 14:23) John's message to members of the politically charged groups that he crossed paths with was for each to rise up to a higher level of righteousness. He was not about strategizing with or using the influence of one group or another. His only concern was pointing everyone to repentance and godly righteousness as he prepared the way for Messiah.

[Julie] (14:24 - 14:34) Now let's look at the modern question. Are we willing to build our foundation of dealing with the politically-charged systems of our society on that same basis as John?

[Rick] (14:34 - 15:05) Remember, the basis John dealt with them was stay away and warn, okay? Help people understand wherever you are, whatever you do, you need to do it at a higher level and you need to understand your own sinfulness. That's how John dealt with it.

He didn't get involved. Even though he didn't call people out of their groups, John the Baptist sent a clear message with his preaching. The question is, is anyone listening?

[Jonathan] (15:06 - 15:16) The amazing diversity in the politically-charged environment of Jesus's day brings us to our next question. What did these groups think of Jesus?

[Rick] (15:17 - 15:56) Based on what we already know of Jesus' life, answering this question is easy, so why do we even ask? We ask because examining the answer as well as Jesus's own responses to these groups will help us see what he did with the politics of his day so we can begin to define how we are to approach the politically diverse world that we live in. The point of asking is to see what he did, to look at it, and look at that and say, all right, this is something we need to learn from as we approach the politically diverse world that is the 21st century. Where do we start?

[Jonathan] (15:57 - 16:24) Let's start with the Scribes. Where did they stand regarding Jesus? Mark 3:20, 22: "And he came home, and the crowd gathered again, to such an extent that they could not even eat a meal. The scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, he was possessed by Beelzebul, and he cast out the demons by the ruler of the demons." The Scribes were authoritative and judgmental. They dismissed and discredited Jesus as being satanic.

[Rick] (16:24 - 16:37) They had no good place for him in their thinking. No, he's satanic. Why?

Because he's not working along the lines we're working. He doesn't fit into our category so that's how they thought of him.

[Jonathan] (16:37 - 16:52) Here's what happened after Jesus cleared the Temple of the money changers. Mark 11:18: "The chief priests and the scribes heard this and began seeking how to destroy him; for they were afraid of him, for the whole crowd was astonished at his teaching." The Scribes wanted to kill him.

[Rick] (16:53 - 17:09) Make the guy satanic? You want him off the scene. He is a problem for us.

That's how they saw Jesus. He is a problem for us. Okay, that's the Scribes. What about the Pharisees? Where did they stand regarding Jesus?

[Julie] (17:10 - 17:47) We're going to talk about when Jesus was eating with Publicans and sinners at the home of Matthew. Matthew had just answered the call to be his Apostle, so these are possibly Matthew's friends and former business associates. Matthew 9:11 says: "When the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?" This action was so far beneath the Pharisees they would never have done this. They couldn't understand that Jesus wasn't condoning sin, but rather he was seeking to lift up the sinners. These were the people who needed him most, and they weren't learning much truth from their religious leaders.

[Rick] (17:48 - 18:04) Besides, the religious leaders just looked down upon them so badly that they didn't expect to be able to learn because they were so degraded in their eyes. You can see that Jesus is breaking the system and causing much reason for complaint amongst the Pharisees.

[Julie] (18:05 - 18:32) Yes, and after the raising of Lazarus from the dead, here's their interaction with Jesus in John 11:47-48, 53: "Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees convened a council, and were saying, What are we doing? For this man is performing many signs. If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation... So from that day on they planned together to kill him."

[Jonathan] (18:33 - 18:43) The Pharisees were threatened by Jesus. He was in the way of their politics and influence with the people, so their answer was to literally get rid of him! How sad and unrighteous.

[Rick] (18:44 - 18:59) Just like the Scribes, let's find a way to get him off the scene. He's a nuisance, an annoyance to what we do.

We've got the Scribes and the Pharisees and their perspective on Jesus. What about the Sadducees? Where did they stand regarding Jesus?

[Jonathan] (18:59 - 19:32) Matthew 16:1: "The Pharisees and Sadducees came up, and testing Jesus, they asked him to show them a sign from heaven." They asked for proof of his Messiahship. The Sadducees had, for the most part, concentrated on the civil operation of Israel. Therefore, we see very little interaction between Jesus and the Sadducees in the early part of his ministry when he was more insignificant as a religious teacher. It was not until the very end that we see the Sadducees take an active part in the persecution of the Lord.

[Julie] (19:32 - 19:54) The fact that the Sadducees even noticed Jesus at all indicates that they came to attach a political significance to him. They were now worried that his popularity with the people and the claims of his kingship would become a direct threat to their political power. With their influential political ties with the Roman authorities, they're going to be the primary group facilitating his death.

[Jonathan] (19:55 - 20:20) Let's drop in two days before the Passover when Jesus was crucified. We read in Matthew 26:3-5: "Then the chief priests (many of which were Sadducees) and the elders of the people were gathered together in the court of the high priest, named Caiaphas; and they plotted together to seize Jesus by stealth and kill him. But they were saying, Not during the festival, otherwise a riot might occur among the people."

[Rick] (20:21 - 20:40) You have these groups; the Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees. They are the ruling class. There's two themes for them; judge Jesus and destroy him. Those are the themes. That is what we have from those who had the greatest power and influence from the "political parties," if you will, of that day.

[Jonathan] (20:40 - 20:46) The Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees were all political groups threatened by Jesus's popularity.

[Julie] (20:47 - 21:02) Being under Roman rule, they wrangled for whatever political power they could get. While they should have been deeply concerned with the issues of Jewish Law, they were simply far more concerned with issues of Roman and Jewish politics, so they could maintain power and profitability.

[Rick] (21:02 - 21:25) Think about those thoughts. Maintain power and profitability. Maintain power and profitability. Because we're inevitably going to ask the question about politics of our day. Doesn't that sound familiar? We've got those three ruling classes. Let's look at now, what did the Publicans, what about them, where did they stand regarding Jesus? Let's look at Luke 15:1:

[Julie] (21:25 - 21:46) "Now all the tax collectors and the sinners were coming near him to listen to him." What a difference between the religious rulers who should have known better and these tax collectors and sinners that were looked down upon by the Jewish elites. The Publicans are drawn to Jesus, and they don't seem to be intimidated by his message of commitment and discipleship.

[Rick] (21:46 - 22:05) They work for the Roman government, and yet they are drawn to Jesus because of his compassion, his approach, and his actual sensibility in relation to all of these things together. The Publicans stand out in a very different perspective than the others.

[Julie] (22:05 - 22:11) Yeah, not only do they work for the Roman government, they're profiting because of that position on the Roman government. Think about that.

[Rick] (22:11 - 22:20) They're still coming and learning from Jesus. Now the last group we have are the Zealots. Where did the Zealots stand regarding Jesus?

[Jonathan] (22:20 - 22:37) They were more of a secretive group working in the shadows. We don't have any scriptural record of this group engaging with Jesus. However, as we shall shortly see, outside of calling Simon the Zealot to be an Apostle Jesus was involved in a unique exchange with them.

[Rick] (22:37 - 23:20) We're going to get to that soon. We've looked at these different groups and their responses to Jesus, and essentially the Zealots ignored him, the political parties in power judged and did try to destroy him, and the Publicans actually were able to cross over that bridge a little bit here and there. That's their responses.

Now let's turn the tables. What are Jesus' own responses to these groups? How did he respond to them?

His responses were wise, they were godly, they were varied, and they were always righteous. First point, he gave them opportunity for dialogue. He actually gave them the opportunity to have conversations.

Luke 10:25-26:

[Jonathan] (23:20 - 23:37) "And a lawyer (scribe) stood up and put him to the test, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And he said to him, What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" Jesus engaged them in conversation, likely searching for individuals with the right heart condition.

[Rick] (23:37 - 24:02) The point is, he didn't come at them with judgment the way the people were used to. He didn't even come at the rulers with judgment the way they came at Jesus. He was different.

He engaged them. The next thing he did is he gave his time and fellowship to those who were humble enough to want to learn. Julie, let's go to Matthew 9:10:

[Julie] (24:02 - 24:26) "Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors (Publicans) and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and his disciples." This is the same setting we read before right after Matthew was called to be an apostle.

[Rick] (24:26 - 25:10) You have Jesus sitting down and having a meal with these people that the rest of Israel looked down upon. Even the average person looked at them as enemies of sorts, because here you are working for our oppressors, and you're making your money based on our oppressors, and why would you even do that? Jesus is giving them time. There's a theme in how Jesus acts and responds and works, and how the political diversiveness of his world acted and responded and worked. So far, we're seeing the most put-aside group having the highest quality of character. It's just kind of an interesting scenario here.

The next thing Jesus did with these groups is-- especially with the politically powerful--he warned his followers about the politically powerful and their influence. Let's look at Matthew 16:6:

[Jonathan] (25:11 - 25:44) "And Jesus said to them, Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Now symbolically in the Bible, leaven is often used as a picture of sin. A few verses down, Matthew 16:21: "From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests (including many Sadducees) and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day." They don't agree on much, but they all agreed Jesus had to go! He was their common enemy.

[Rick] (25:44 - 26:31) Right. They didn't agree on much. You see the Sadducees being focused on here, along with the Pharisees-- Pharisees show up a lot -- they're being focused on here as having that sinful approach. They had a narrow approach that, theoretically, you look at and say, well, wait, there's something good in that.

You want just the five books of Moses. That's the most important thing. Stay with it.

Yes, that's good. But what did they do with what was good? They tainted it.

It became sinful instead. Pharisees, same thing! They tainted what was good about what they were given, and it became political, and personal and prideful. Jesus warned the Pharisees themselves about the coming consequences of their own actions. Jonathan, let's go to Matthew 23:13:

[Jonathan] (26:32 - 26:42) "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

[Rick] (26:43 - 27:19) Think about the opportunity the Pharisees could have had with the people if they were righteous. Think about the opportunity the Sadducees could have had with the people if they were righteous. Think about the opportunity the Scribes could have had if they were righteous. They had the stage but they didn't use it in an appropriate way, according to Jesus. Before his crucifixion, Jesus was condemned to die, while a Zealot was saved from his punishment. Let's look at Mark 15:7,9,11,15:

[Jonathan] (27:20 - 27:45) "The man named Barabbas had been imprisoned with the insurrectionists (Zealots) who had committed murder in the insurrection. Pilate answered them, saying, Do you want me to release for you the King of the Jews? But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to ask him to release Barabbas for them instead. Wishing to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas for them, and after having Jesus scourged, he handed him over to be crucified."

[Rick] (27:45 - 28:44) This is a very powerful event, because you have this Zealot. Now remember, Jesus doesn't have interaction with the Zealots, except for one, essentially, and we'll get into that. Yet, his life is traded for this Zealot's life. This Zealot was a criminal, and yet Jesus ended up dying in his place because the chief priests stirred up the crowd to ask for Barabbas rather than Jesus. The whole point is, Jesus cared about the individuals but he called out what they did--especially as a group--put it in perspective, and even died for them. You see these groups with political influence and political power, and the push to be able to move people to one way or another. They didn't generally like Jesus, but Jesus put things in its place with them, calling them out and being righteous all along the way. Jonathan, People, Politics, and Scriptural Principles; where are we so far?

[Jonathan] (28:45 - 29:04) Jesus did not fit into the mold of any of these groups. They did not support him in any way, and he called out their hypocrisy and self-absorbed manner. Jesus did not "work" the systems that had been corrupted. Rather, he called them out to strive for higher levels of humility and righteousness.

[Julie] (29:05 - 29:16) Now think about that. How are we viewing the politically charged systems within our present-day society? Are we following?

Are we supporting? Or are we living in an example of a higher way?

[Rick] (29:16 - 30:04) Jesus lived in an example of a higher way. He didn't work the system. He didn't say to the Scribes and the Pharisees and the Sadducees, hey look, let's get the people, let's work together. He called them out. Why? The core of what they stood for had great potential, but the way they stood for it did not.

He could not work with systems that were so corrupted, even though the core of what they stood for had such great potential. We need to understand that to understand how Jesus handled the politics of his day. The wisdom and example of Jesus give us a high and lofty and godly standard to follow.

His standard is challenging and exemplary.

[Jonathan] (30:05 - 30:13) We have seen how Jesus stood above the systems of the Jewish world of his day. How did he deal with the individuals within those systems?

[Rick] (30:14 - 30:54) Well, Jesus had many interactions with individuals who were within these groupings of Israel. The way he handled each person was very different from the way he handled the system that they were a part of, and that's a very important point. As we touch on these interactions, let's observe how everything he said and did was for the purpose of opening their eyes and bringing them to the higher ground of understanding the cost and privilege of following him.

His whole purpose was to look for the individuals and pluck them out of where they were, to show them something different.

[Jonathan] (30:55 - 31:28) Let's begin with the Scribes and look at two individuals. The first example; after hearing the Sadducees arguing with Jesus (that was in Mark 12:28-33), another Scribe engaged him. Jesus saw his sincerity and responded in this way. Mark 12:34: "When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, he said to him, You are not far from the kingdom of God. After that, no one would venture to ask him any more questions." Jesus gave him encouragement, not condemnation.

[Rick] (31:28 - 32:08) Remember, the Scribes said, you're of the devil. Look at the dramatic difference here. He sees an individual who looks like he has a grasp on something of purity, and what does he do?

He tells him, 'You are not far from the kingdom." He shows him he is looking not for the group, he's looking for the individuals to encourage, not condemn. Let's look at a second example; an unidentified Scribe--this is interesting, this Scribe--remember the Scribes as a group said, You are of the devil!-- well this unidentified Scribe proclaimed that he would follow Jesus. Matthew 8:18-20:

[Jonathan] (32:08 - 32:35) "Now when Jesus saw a crowd around him, he gave orders to depart to the other side of the sea. Then a scribe came and said to him, Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go. Jesus said to him, The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head." Jesus gently warned him of the challenges that he would face as he would be leaving his comfortable life behind.

[Rick] (32:35 - 33:48) Think about what that Scribe said. "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go." Jesus doesn't look at him and say, oh son, you have no idea how tough this is going to be. He doesn't look at him and say, oh, so now you're changing your mind and I'm not of the devil?

What he does is he says, listen, it's a hard road. "Foxes have their holes," they have the places where they sleep, "the birds of the air have their nests," they have places where they sleep. Me, I don't know where I'm sleeping tomorrow night, or the night after, or the night after.

The implication is, sure, you can follow, but this is what WE are in for. He is inviting and he is not discouraging. He looks at these individual Scribes with grace and respect. He got disrespect and destruction and replaced it with grace and respect. What about the Pharisees? How did that all work out?

Well, let's look at Nicodemus, who was likely a secret follower. Remember he originally came to Jesus by night, and then he became a public follower of Jesus after the crucifixion. Julie, what do we have with Nicodemus?

[Julie] (33:49 - 34:53) Yeah, he came with Joseph of Arimathea to take down and embalm the body of Jesus, and in John 19:38-40 we read: "After these things, Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away his body. Nicodemus, who had first come to him (Jesus) by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight. So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen wrappings with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews." You noticed he had a secret relationship because of the "fear of the Jews." A quote from a Bible dictionary: "In Nicodemus a noble candor and a simple love of truth shine out in the midst of hesitation and fear of man." I thought that was a really nice quote.

Jesus' influence was enough for Nicodemus the Pharisee to walk away from his previously held position of power and prestige. That was a good thing, good man.

[Rick] (34:53 - 35:43) That's a big thing to walk away from. You have the world at your fingertips. You walk out onto the street and people look at you and respect you simply because you're there, and he walks away from all of that because he had met with Jesus by night, couldn't bring himself to break away while Jesus was alive, but his crucifixion made Nicodemus stand up for what he truly in his heart believed in.

You can see the power of Jesus's influence. Again, it's not on the political party, it's to draw you away from the political party. Another example of a Pharisee is Saul of Tarsus, that very well-known, high-ranking Pharisee.

He was called to be one of the twelve Apostles. Now obviously this is after Jesus' death and resurrection, but Acts 9:3-6:

[Julie] (35:43 - 36:11) "As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? And he said, Who are you, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, but get up, enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do." Saul was called out of his life as a Pharisee in this dramatic way into the life of a footstep follower of Jesus.

[Rick] (36:12 - 36:29) Not only into the life of a footstep follower, into the life of one of the twelve! Let's get it straight, there were twelve apostles, there were only twelve, and one of them is a Pharisee. Of all people, a Pharisee! Jonathan, what about the Sadducees?

[Jonathan] (36:30 - 36:55) It's interesting, there's no scriptural record of any personal interactions with any Sadducee individually. Perhaps this was because they were so conservative, accepting only the books of Moses, and they worked to eliminate Jesus only through their lofty positions among the Jews and in the Sanhedrin. Later we see them using their influence to get Pilate to do what they wanted, to kill Jesus.

[Rick] (36:55 - 37:37) There is no Sadducee that takes upon himself to break away from his political affiliation and essentially meet Jesus one-on-one. That's sad, because what would Jesus have done? The answer is what he did with everybody else.

He would have given him an ear to hear, words of wisdom, he would have given him a direction that was higher than what that Sadducee would have known. But we have no scriptural evidence that that ever happened. What about the Publicans? Our first example is Jesus called Matthew. He was a Publican, he was a tax collector, called him to be one of the Apostles. Matthew 9:9:

[Julie] (37:37 - 38:07) "As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man called Matthew, sitting in the tax collector's booth; and he said to him, Follow me! And he got up and followed him." That's dramatic! I have a Bible Commentary by David Guzik. He said: "There is archaeological evidence that fish taken from the Sea of Galilee were taxed. So Jesus took as his disciple the tax man that may have taken money from Peter, James, and John and the other fishermen among the disciples. This might have made for some awkward introductions."

[Rick] (38:07 - 38:43) That's likely exactly why Jesus did it, because he was about the unifying of people. Now, time out for a second. He's about the unifying of the people.

When we look at the political ramifications of those groups in Jesus' day, what were they about? Follow our way and we'll all be good! Follow our way, we'll all be good! What are the political affiliations today all about? Follow our way, we'll all be good! Follow our way, we'll all be good! What was Jesus about? None of it works. One by one, come and see something higher.

Another Publican that Jesus touched the heart of was Zacchaeus.

[Julie] (38:43 - 39:20) Okay, so you remember, these tax collectors had a really bad reputation for overcharging and extortion. They overcharged when they had opportunity, the Scriptures say. They brought false charges of smuggling in hopes of extorting hush money.

Zacchaeus was a chief tax collector. He was very rich. Jesus was passing through Jericho and Zacchaeus was trying to get a glimpse of him, but he was too short. He climbed a tree to get a better vantage point. We pick up the account in Luke 19:5: "When Jesus came to the place, he looked up and said to him, Zacchaeus, hurry and come down, for today I must stay at your house."

[Jonathan] (39:20 - 39:28) In all the throngs of people, he not only noticed Zacchaeus, but he called him by name, and Jesus will be an honored guest at his home.

[Julie] (39:28 - 40:19) Wow! Continuing in verse 6: "And he hurried and came down and received him gladly. When they saw it, they all began to grumble, saying, He has gone to be the guest of a man who is a sinner. Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much. And Jesus said to him, Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Jesus wasn't concerned with this group label of "Publican" and all that it represented. He was looking for individual hearts. He made it abundantly clear that anyone's status within their culture was of no consequence when it came to responding to Jesus's message.

[Rick] (40:19 - 40:57) You see these Publicans come to Jesus, and you see Matthew literally, completely leave the occupation entirely, and you see Zacchaeus immediately give away half of what he has, plus say, if I've wronged you I will restore what I've done fourfold. He is willing to part with all of those things. That's the change! They didn't stay where they were, they came to Jesus to a higher way. Last group we have left is the Zealots. We know Jesus called Simon the Zealot to do what?

To be one of the Twelve Apostles. Jonathan, Luke 6:15:

[Jonathan] (40:58 - 41:15) "...and Matthew and Thomas; James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot." It's interesting. Jesus called Matthew the tax collector who was employed by Rome, and he called Simon the Zealot who hated Rome and wanted it destroyed. They were on politically opposite sides.

[Rick] (41:15 - 42:22) The interesting thing here, on top of that, is that you don't see interactions of Zealots with anybody. Yet you have this one Zealot who comes into Jesus' path. Jesus recognizes him, sees his heart, and calls him. You see that this group is represented as those who can change and rise above. He didn't say, Simon, okay, I'm calling you to be my Apostle, go back to your friends, mingle with them, and show them what we have learned. No, he said, come follow me. What do we have here? We have a Pharisee, one of the ruling class; we have a Publican, a sinner, one that everybody hated; and we have a Zealot, a rebel. All three of these were called to be Apostles. That's three out of twelve.

That's twenty-five percent of the Apostles are from the ruling class, sinners, and rebels! Each came out of their previous lifestyle to follow Jesus, to follow him. Not bring what they had along with, but to leave it behind.

[Julie] (42:23 - 42:32) We can conclude that Jesus didn't get involved in the political ideologies of his day, even though he could have used them to his advantage. But he did care about the individual people.

[Rick] (42:33 - 42:42) Let's put this back together. People, Politics, and Scriptural Principles in relation to Jesus and individuals; Jonathan, what do we have?

[Jonathan] (42:42 - 43:02) While Jesus opposed the politically charged systems of his day, he truly loved those who were entrenched within those systems. In every case we see Jesus inviting those individuals to come up higher--to leave behind the corruption of their associations, and follow him in a new and living way.

[Julie] (43:02 - 43:44) Let's take it to today. Are WE living examples of being open and inviting to those from such varied walks of life in our politically charged environment? We normally think of politics as relating to the government, but political also means acting according to the interests of status or authority within an organization, rather than matters of principle. We look around and churches can be very internally political, whether it's this large name-brand denomination or your local Bible church on the corner. We want to be aware that church politics exist, so that we aren't focused on status or "us-and-them" mentality instead of the scriptural principles we should be.

[Rick] (43:44 - 44:30) You look at Jesus and politics, and you see that he avoided and called out the groups that were in place. Each of those groups had a potential to be better, but they weren't. He didn't try to correct them, he simply called them out.

We can bring that same attitude into our own church groups, and the whole thing needs to be understood. Avoid the political wrangling on any level. That's not what a true follower of Jesus is called to do on any level, at any time.

The wisdom, compassion, and love of Jesus were on powerful display, as he called specific individuals out of their previous associations.

[Jonathan] (44:31 - 44:41) Jesus didn't work the system, he worked above the system. How does his example translate for his followers after his death and right up to our present time?

[Rick] (44:42 - 45:48) Anytime Jesus sets an example, we who follow him may see it as a daunting template for what our lives should look like. Fortunately, we have many scriptures that show us how, in a practical way, to apply the principles that he laid out. As we lay out the scriptural evidence, we will see our scriptural path unfold before us.

We want to look at, okay, what do we do with what we've seen from Jesus? What have we seen from him? He didn't get involved.

John the Baptist didn't get involved. John the Baptist told them some things. Jesus told them what their groups were like, but he drew individuals out to a higher path.

He didn't stop in the middle. There was no compromising. There was, you're either there or here. Let's look at two more things from Jesus' own life example. First, when he was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane before his crucifixion, he was very specific about how his followers should act.

Pay close attention to these verses, John 17:14-15:

[Jonathan] (45:48 - 46:04) "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one." We are IN the world, but not OF the world!

[Rick] (46:05 - 46:44) This is a really important principle. This is the last free time that Jesus had before his crucifixion. What did he do with it? He spent it praying for his disciples right then and his disciples all down through the age. That includes us. You are IN the world, but you are not OF the world. Let's take that, let's hold on to that thought.

The next day, while being questioned by Pilate, Jesus profoundly clarified his stance. Again, listen carefully to what Jesus says and what he means here. John 18:33-35:

[Jonathan] (46:45 - 47:04) "Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to him, Are you the King of the Jews? Jesus answered, Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about me? Pilate answered, I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered you to me; what have you done?"

[Rick] (47:05 - 47:41) The question, "Are you the king of the Jews?" Jesus is giving a little bit of a hard time. He said, well, okay, who told you this?

Pilate's getting a little upset. "What have you done?" What have you done here?

This is a matter of life and death for Jesus, and that's what this was. Answer wrong, and you die. Answer right, and maybe you can find a way out.

This is a matter of life and death for Jesus. What did it provide him? A way of escape?

Oh no, no, because that's not what he was here for. It provided him with the opportunity to show his true mission. What was his true mission?

Listen to his answer, John 18:36:

[Jonathan] (47:41 - 47:54) "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, my kingdom is not of this realm."

[Julie] (47:55 - 48:40) As Jesus' followers, it sounds like we're not to fight in any way for political power in this world. But on the flip side, and especially in a republic like the United States, the government gets its power from the people. In Romans 13:1 the Apostle Paul said, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." Good government is good! It allows the people to flourish.

We can discuss religion, and even my garbage gets picked up every week because of our government. Some believe voting is part of our stewardship to vote for those who support scriptural values. Why wouldn't we as Christians want voters and political leaders of the Christian faith?

[Rick] (48:40 - 50:13) Let's look at that question in relation to what Jesus gave as an answer. He said, "If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over...but my kingdom is not of this realm." His principle is very, very sound and clear and simple. My kingdom has nothing to do with anything that's here governing it. It is above it. It's from heaven.

Your question, why would we not want to have good rulers in place? We DO want to have good rulers! It's great to have good rulers! You have freedom, you have opportunities, you can do all kinds of things. The point is, if you are a follower of Jesus and you believe his words, our responsibility is to not be engaged in the kingdoms of this world because our calling is above that. Does that mean I don't want somebody in power so I can have the freedom to talk the way we're talking?

No, that's not what it means. What it means is, our job is to be engaged in those things that are higher than that. Yes, we do want them, but we are not to fight to put them there. Why? Because Jesus says, "If my kingdom were of this world," then my followers would fight. Therefore, we should not be engaged in such a fight.

To be Jesus' true follower is to be a representative of God's will and word for all. Let's go now to some other scriptures in the New Testament that help us understand what our role is as Christians. 2 Corinthians 5:17-20:

[Jonathan] (50:13 - 50:49) "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

[Julie] (50:49 - 51:06) An interesting choice of words from Paul, describing us as "ambassadors for Christ." What's an "ambassador?" They're an accredited diplomat sent by a country as its official representative to a foreign country, but they represent their home country's interests while living in the host country.

[Rick] (51:06 - 51:15) The question is, do ambassadors get involved and become influencers in the political wrangling of the country that they are visiting? No.

[Julie] (51:15 - 51:16) Ideally not.

[Rick] (51:17 - 52:02) That's right. That's not their job. The Apostle Paul is telling us exactly what Jesus told us. His "kingdom is not of this realm." You are "ambassadors." Of whom? Of Christ. Where's his kingdom? Oh, it's a heavenly kingdom in the future.

Thy kingdom come on earth in the future, not now, later. That's what we are supposed to be representing. Again, that is showing us where our citizenship is and how that is supposed to work. Our true citizenship as this "new creation," in 2 Corinthians 5:17, it says you're this "new creation," is not of this world, as Jesus mentioned in John 17. Let's verify that. Let's go a little bit more deeply into that.

Philippians 3:20-21:

[Jonathan] (52:03 - 52:21) "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of his glory, by the exertion of the power that he has even to subject all things to himself."

[Rick] (52:21 - 52:43) "Our citizenship is in heaven." That's where our primary allegiance is. Everything else is built on the sides around that.

That's what we fight for. That's what we stand for. That's the flag that we should be waving.

It's that flag. That's what we're about.

[Jonathan] (52:44 - 53:28) Having "citizenship in heaven" is NOT an excuse to avoid paying taxes. Rather, it points us to be good and righteous citizens. How did Jesus react to being put on the spot about paying taxes? Luke 20:21-25: "They questioned him, saying, Teacher, we know that you speak and teach correctly, and you are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? But he detected their trickery and said to them, Show me a denarius. Whose likeness and inscription does it have? They said, Caesar's. And he said to them, Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God’s."

[Julie] (53:28 - 54:20) Brilliant! Going back to Romans 13:6-7, Paul said, "For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to who custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor." In going over these scriptures with you both this week, we talked about how our taxes pay for things that we don't necessarily approve of or agree with. Even to a government, some nations pay. It's completely corrupt.

They have the same issue paying taxes to the Romans, which is partially why those Publicans were so hated. The Jewish people were, in effect, funding the oppressive nation that eventually destroyed them. Just like I won't serve in the military but I'm certainly grateful for those who do, I appreciate those in government who want to make things better for me.

[Rick] (54:20 - 55:18) You look at this, you say, Well, that's a conundrum. That's a problem. Because you're saying, well, you appreciate those things and yeah, and you're supposed to pay your taxes, but you're not supposed to be in the middle of it. Yes, that's exactly right. Why would we say that? Because that's exactly what Jesus said.

That's exactly what Jesus did. That's exactly what the Apostle Paul said, what the Apostle Paul did, and as we're about to see, it's exactly what the Apostle Peter said and did. We are acting in a way that says our "citizenship is in heaven," and we are following heavenly guidance, because frankly, this old world doesn't need those who are truly called to follow in Jesus' footsteps. It's going to fall apart anyway. We're going to get to that in a moment, okay? Overall, we are to be contributory and respectful in this world in which we live.

Our behavior should reflect Christ's likeness in all ways. 1 Peter 2:13-17:

[Jonathan] (55:18 - 55:49) "Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men. Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king."

[Rick] (55:49 - 56:49) "Honor the king?" What!? The point of this is simple. Be a good person.

Be a reflection of Christ's likeness. Jesus didn't buck the system, he lived up to the system in a way that was higher than anybody could imagine. When he was challenged on the Law, he showed them how he fulfilled the Law. He showed them ways of seeing it in a bigger way. We are to be good people, so that when someone looks at you they say, look at that person, there's nothing about them that I can see that's corrupt or vile or political, for that matter. Because when you start to get political, what do you do?

You elevate one group, and what do you do to the rest? You demonize them. You put them aside.

That's not what we're called to do. Finally, once Daniel from the Old Testament was given the interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream, he was given that interpretation by God, here's how he responded in prayer with praise and honor to God for his incredible mercy for revealing this dream. Daniel 2:20-22:

[Jonathan] (56:49 - 57:12) "Daniel said, Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever, for wisdom and power belong to Him. It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men and knowledge to men of understanding. It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things; He knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with Him."

[Rick] (57:12 - 58:09) Daniel would interpret the king's dream and report to the king regarding the changing of world empires. Even though Daniel would be elevated within that first empire--"thou oh king are the head of gold" on that image--even though he would be elevated to power within that empire, the report was of its demise, and it wouldn't change. Daniel was given an opportunity as a Jewish individual to be a part of that, and yet it was going to fall.

He served where he was called upon to serve as a Jew. I want to make a note, Jews were about the physical world that they lived in. Christianity is about the kingdom of heaven.

It's a different circumstance, but the point is that he says to God, You're the one who sets up and takes down kingdoms. Not me by my vote, not me by my influence. It is God and we need to let it stay there. Jonathan, finally, People, Politics, and Scriptural Principles:

[Jonathan] (58:09 - 58:26) We have carefully considered Jesus' specific instructions regarding the politically-charged organizations that we, as his followers, would be facing. It is now our responsibility to accept his direction and, to the best of our ability, embrace it and apply it.

[Julie] (58:26 - 58:39) While this might be challenging, we have to always go back to our most important question: How well am I representing Jesus as his footstep follower in my actions and reactions when it comes to politics?

[Rick] (58:39 - 58:58) How well am I stepping up and stepping out of the norm into a place that says, "I'm an ambassador, my citizenship is in heaven, I need to act like that in every way, being respectful to the laws of the land and the ways of the land, but living for a higher kingdom."

[Julie] (58:59 - 59:15) Getting back to your opening questions, Rick, is it your opinion that we should get involved or stay away? If someone's conscience tells them to vote or even get more involved in their local or higher governments, they have the Christian liberty to do so, don't they?

[Rick] (59:15 - 1:00:43) They do. As for me, I would be incredibly careful about such things, because the beginning of involvement often brings further involvement and further involvement. Hey, and I'm doing good here.

Sure, and you probably are, and maybe you can execute change, but the problem is that what we're trying to do is build up the kingdoms of this world when the prophecies say they're going to fall. The good news is that what replaces them is the kingdom of God, of which we are citizens. "Choose you this day whom you will serve... as for me and my house (this is from Joshua) we will serve the Lord." The point here, folks, is to be very clear when we look at our stand in the world in which we live. The world is political, there's opinions, and we're pressed to take a stand for this or that.

Please, let's consider the Scriptures and take a stand as best as we can for the highest principles that Jesus not only spoke, but he taught and he did. Let us be footstep followers of him in these tumultuous times. Think about it! Folks, we love hearing from our listeners. We welcome your feedback and questions on this episode and other episodes at ChristianQuestions.com. Coming up in our next episode: "How Do We Understand the Story of The Rich Man and Lazarus?" (Hellfire Series Part III)

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