[Announcer] (0:00 - 0:34) Think about the Bible like you never have before. You're listening to Christian Questions! Experience more episodes, videos, and Bible study resources at ChristianQuestions.com.

Our topic is: "How Do You Cope With Feeling Shame?" Have you ever heard someone say, "You should be ashamed of yourself!" Basically, this tells us to see ourselves as worthless.

While shame is real, it sometimes is deserved and other times it may be a made-up conclusion. In either case, what is the bottom line? Can shame ever be a good thing?

Here's Rick, Jonathan, and Julie.

[Rick] (0:36 - 0:47) Welcome, everyone. I'm Rick. I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over 25 years. Julie, a long-time contributor, is also with us. Jonathan, what's our theme scripture for this episode?

[Jonathan] (0:47 - 1:00) Hebrews 12:2: "Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

[Rick] (1:00 - 1:57) Most of us are likely familiar with what shame feels like. We know all too well that shame has the capacity to be a debilitating weight that can cut us off from others and reduce our lives to a cycle of hiding and self-contempt. Such a cycle can bring us to a living space where the ceaselessly droning voices of regret and unworthiness echo in a continuous loop. Even if we're repentant, shame can make forgiveness seem not only undeserved and impossible but entirely unreachable as well. Our shame now grows into a malignant tumor. Unchecked, it can drain away the goodness and value of our lives.

What can we do to battle against and overcome the debilitating characteristics of shame? Fortunately, the Bible shows us many principles to transform shame into a tool of growth.

[Julie] (1:58 - 2:37) Wikipedia describes "shame" as "an unpleasant, self-conscious emotion often associated with negative self-evaluation, motivation to quit, and feelings of pain, exposure, distrust, powerlessness, and worthlessness." Shame is one of these negative emotions that can sometimes, though, work to our benefit. Legitimate shame is beneficial in that it helps us to recognize we've done something wrong and we need to do something about it to make it right.

But in the negative, it can also be undeserved or an unjustified perception that we're ashamed and we aren't good enough. We needlessly carry this around and it can be debilitating.

[Jonathan] (2:38 - 3:03) Shame and guilt can be very closely related. Guilt is often associated in a legal sense. You are guilty or innocent.

Biblically, guilt is very much about actions that are against the Law. In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word for "guilt" means "to be punished or perish; acknowledge offense." In the New Testament, the Greek word means "liable to a condition, penalty, or an accusation" against you.

[Rick] (3:03 - 3:25) We've got shame and guilt. They are in some ways related, in some ways different. Shame focuses on the personal or public dishonor one experiences as a result of real or perceived circumstances or decision.

As we get into this, first we want to take a quick look at the differences. Let's define the differences between shame and guilt.

[Julie] (3:25 - 3:48) We have an excerpt from a TED Talk given by Brene Brown called "Listening to Shame," and she said, "Shame drives two big tapes (that means thoughts that we replay over and over) that we're never good enough, (that's internal shame) and who do you think you are (that's external shame). The thing to understand," she said, "about shame is, it's not guilt. Shame is a focus on self."

[Jonathan] (3:48 - 3:50) Guilt is a focus on behavior.

[Julie] (3:51 - 3:53) Shame is, "I am bad."

[Jonathan] (3:53 - 3:58) Guilt is, "I did something bad," and guilt says, "Sorry, I made a mistake."

[Julie] (3:59 - 4:20) Shame says, "I'm sorry, I am a mistake." She continues by saying that, "Shame is highly correlated with addiction, depression, violence, aggression, bullying, suicide, eating disorders. Guilt is inversely correlated with these things." In other words, when these negative things exist, there's low guilt, but high shame.

[Jonathan] (4:20 - 4:38) There are many words for "shame" in the New Testament. We will begin with the one from our theme text about Jesus "despising the shame." The word for "shame" there means "disgrace; the confusion of one who was ashamed; a sense of shame, ignominy." Now, "ignominy" means "public shame or disgrace."

[Rick] (4:38 - 4:50) Alright, let's take a look at one other example besides our theme text of the use of this particular word. Let's look at Luke 14:8-9, and we're focusing in on this concept of shame:

[Jonathan] (4:50 - 5:08) "When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for someone more distinguished than you may have been invited by him, and he who invited you both will come and say to you, Give your place to this man, and then in disgrace you proceed to occupy the last place."

[Julie] (5:09 - 5:34) That word "disgrace" there is the word for "shame." Bible commentary by David Guzik says this: "A wedding party was the most important social occasion in Jewish life at the time. The seating arrangement at the table indicated one's standing in the community.

If one takes the most honored place for himself, he may be asked to be removed if the host would rather have someone else sit there." Today we might call that the "walk of shame," as you get demoted to a worse seat.

[Jonathan] (5:35 - 5:38) Shame is often an equation of failure plus pride.

[Julie] (5:39 - 5:56) Yes, and another Bible commentary, John Gill's Exposition of the Bible: "This fills a man with shame and confusion...because his pride and vanity will be publicly exposed, and he who before sat in the chief place, will have the mortification, before all the guests, to be seated at the lowest."

[Rick] (5:56 - 6:30) We look at that, and you can feel the shame of this scripture. You can feel if you were that person, it would be this humiliating, absolutely humiliating, public experience. That gives us a good sense of shame from the inside out. Nobody wants to be there, and yet shame is a constant companion for so many people. We need to put this in some kind of balance. Let's unfold shame in action. Let's look at it in action by observing Jesus's experience with the Samaritan woman at the well. We're going to start with John 4:5-8.

[Julie] (6:30 - 6:49) I'm going to set the context real quick. The Samaritans and the Jews had these major political and religious differences. They didn't like the Jews, the Jews didn't like them, and this bitterness between the two peoples was deep, corrosive, and encompassing. This encounter between Jesus and the woman takes up most of John 4, so it's a significant lesson.

[Jonathan] (6:49 - 7:21) "So he came to a city of Samaria called Sychar, near the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph; and Jacob's well was there. So Jesus, being wearied from his journey, was sitting thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour. There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her, Give me a drink.

For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food." Here's an interesting detail; the sixth hour is around noon. It would be unusual for a woman to be doing heavy chores like drawing water in the heat of the day.

[Julie] (7:21 - 7:43) That tells us that she's avoiding people, especially the other women with their whispers and their pointing and their eye rolls. Jesus perceives her situation and reveals to her that he knows she's had multiple husbands, and the man she's living with now isn't her husband. Her life experience and her choices have put her in this shameful state of being an outcast.

[Jonathan] (7:43 - 7:45) Shame brings exclusion.

[Julie] (7:45 - 8:02) We looked at another commentary. Eclectic Notes on the Bible says this: "Isolated in fact, isolated in her heart, she did not come at a time when women draw water. She had followed after pleasure in doing her own will... Her sin isolated her; respectable people did not want her..."

[Rick] (8:03 - 9:05) This is a big problem. You are living your life in this world of utter loneliness and hiding, and Jonathan, you mentioned exclusion. Exclusion is a powerful, powerful word, and that comes from shame.

Here we have this shamed, excluded woman, and Jesus is saying, hey, "give me a drink." This is completely out of context for her life. Let's go further. In spite of this shunned existence of exclusion, Jesus, what does he do? He speaks with her, not with the eye roll and not with the body language. He talks to her.

He has a conversation with her at great length. After Jesus revealed that he knew her own tragic experiences, he then told her a most amazing truth. We have to understand that this example of this woman living in shame and Jesus' response speaks volumes as to what can happen with godliness injected into a life that's full of shame. John 4:25-30:

[Jonathan] (9:05 - 9:25) "The woman said to him, I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us. Jesus said to her, I who speak to you am he." Traditionally, it would have been odd for a Jewish person to even ask a favor of a Samaritan, let alone drink from their cup.

[Julie] (9:25 - 10:13) A rabbi, a teacher like Jesus, wouldn't even culturally speak to a woman in public. Did Jesus just reveal his true identity as the Messiah to a Samaritan?! A Samaritan woman?! A Samaritan woman with a bad reputation?! This is huge! I love this part that he did this for her, because in spite of her sins, he listened, he responded, he taught, and he trusted her.

He showed compassion and love, and that normally doesn't happen to people who are living in shame. I have another quote from Brene Brown. "If you put shame in a petri dish, it needs three ingredients to grow exponentially: secrecy, silence, and judgment. If you put the same amount of shame in that dish and douse it with empathy, it can't survive." That's what Jesus did.

[Rick] (10:13 - 10:41) Yeah, and he took away the secrecy. He took away the silence. He took away the judgment.

He took those things away and welcomed her as a human being who he knew, because he could read her heart, that she actually did have faith. You see this woman steeped in a life of exclusion and shame, and Jesus coming along and opening up this bright door with this incredible warm sunlight to say, welcome in. Jonathan, let's continue the reading with verses 27 through 30:

[Jonathan] (10:41 - 11:22) "At this point his disciples came, and they were amazed that he had been speaking with a woman (they recognized this was culturally unusual), yet no one said, What do you seek? or, Why do you speak with her? So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and said to the men, Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not the Christ, is it? They went out of the city, and they were coming to him." Here's another special detail-- she left her water pot. The woman responded with inclusion and an excitement for life. Her earthly chores could wait.

She had to let people know what had just happened. She had something precious to share.

[Julie] (11:23 - 11:40) Notice also she describes him as "a man who told me all the things I have done." She's admitting to everyone about her sins being exposed. She's been hiding from her community, and now she's inviting everyone to come close to her, even if they know what she's done, and she can spread the word.

[Rick] (11:40 - 12:21) Now why could she do that? Because Jesus knew and accepted her. That's why she could open that door, because now there was an acceptance because she did have a heart that was good and Jesus sought to give her a blessing in terms of that and give her this information and use her as a tool for the progression of the gospel amongst the Samaritans. What happens next? Well, what comes next is her witnessing, and she did witness. Look, she didn't have any water pots to weigh her down, so she's running around witnessing.

Her witnessing led many to believe. Jonathan, let's continue with John 4:39-42:

[Jonathan] (12:21 - 12:29) "From that city many of the Samaritans believed in him because of the word of the woman who testified, He told me all the things that I have done."

[Julie] (12:29 - 12:49) It's interesting that this is how the word's getting out. When passing along the story, people are saying, well you know, that woman who had done all those things! She's coming out from under her reputation.

Her willingness to expose herself and that cycle that she had been stuck in is triggering others to believe because of her testimony.

[Jonathan] (12:50 - 13:11) Continuing with verse 40: "So when the Samaritans came to Jesus, they were asking him to stay with them; and he stayed there two days. Many more believed because of his word; and they were saying to the woman, It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this one is indeed the savior of the world."

[Rick] (13:11 - 13:49) You notice they're talking to her? Just that little detail? Do you notice they're talking to her?

You notice that she now has a place in society because Jesus gave her a role, and she went to fulfill it. That's the power of inclusion when you have shame overriding your life and crushing you under its weight. This is a remarkable account that helps us understand the depth of shame and the glory of righteousness as a healer for these things.

Now, this is just the beginning. There's a whole lot more to unfold. Jonathan, we need to do some Navigating Through the Shame Game: What do we have to begin?

[Jonathan] (13:49 - 14:09) Shame can be an incredibly heavy emotional burden as well as a daunting and overwhelming public experience. However, shame does not have to remain that way. Realizing that Jesus has already paid the price for our sins can be a strong first step towards being willing to accept acceptance.

[Rick] (14:09 - 14:35) We need to learn to accept acceptance, and understanding the role Jesus plays as paying the price for sin is a wonderful step. But folks, it's only the first step. There is work to be done.

This is not a miraculous thing. We have to engage in the process. Right from the beginning, we can see how shame was deeply embedded into our human framework.

Now, let's understand it.

[Jonathan] (14:37 - 14:44) As Christians, what kinds of thoughts, things, or actions are likely to bring us shame before God?

[Rick] (14:44 - 15:15) Well, the list here is extremely long, and when you think about it, it's very depressing. We first need to focus on the fundamental truth that being called to follow Jesus is to be called out of the world with its thrills, ambitions, and practices. If we truly follow this path out, we then subject ourselves to experiencing shame from the world.

The point here is you can't get away from shame no matter where you go.

[Julie] (15:15 - 15:32) It's a trade-off, because when we're doing the right thing and we're pleasing God the world shames us and makes us feel like we're weird or worse. But if we do what the world wants us to do with, like you said, Rick, its thrills, ambitions, and practices, we experience shame from God. Whose opinion do we care more about?

[Jonathan] (15:32 - 16:06) The first biblical instance of shame came early. Adam and Eve were created without shame. Genesis 2:25: "And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." When they disobeyed God's command, they both immediately felt a need to cover themselves.

As we will see, this shame would be a good thing as it identified their being out of harmony with God. Now, let's read Genesis 3:7: "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings."

[Rick] (16:07 - 16:40) Now you have this circumstance where they hid themselves. They needed to be covered because their eyes were opened. This shame would be a tool.

Humanity was now introduced to knowing good and evil, and they knew they had disobeyed. They covered themselves. Then the next set of verses shows us that they instinctively hid. This is on top of the covering. We have this unfolding of shame in the very first instance in Scripture, and it's going to be teaching us a remarkable lesson that we all need to really, really focus on. Jonathan, let's go to Genesis 3:8-11:

[Jonathan] (16:41 - 17:07) "They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, Where are you? He said, I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself. And He said, Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"

[Julie] (17:07 - 17:45) It's just so innocent that they tried to hide from God. Bible commentary from David Guzik says this: "This shows that Adam and Eve knew their attempt to cover themselves failed. They didn't proudly show off their fig-leaf outfits. They knew their own covering was completely inadequate, and they were embarrassed before God... God obviously knew where they were but he also knew a gulf had been made between Him and man. The question (that God asked them) was meant to arouse Adam's sense of being lost, and it led Adam to confess his sin, and it was to express God's sorrow over man's lost condition, and to express the accountability man had before God."

[Rick] (17:45 - 18:06) There was a lot that happened in this simple exercise of shame being introduced to humanity. God would now care for them, but they would be in a new reality. It would have to be in a new way.

His care would by definition now be limited, and we find this opening up in Genesis 3. Now let's go to verses 21-23:

[Jonathan] (18:06 - 18:28) "The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever-- therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken."

[Rick] (18:29 - 18:54) Now they're expelled from this perfect, beautiful, wonderful, incredible place, and they are going to be without God, directly, the way they were. Their shame from their sin was all part of the process of understanding how deep their sin was, and the fact that now they felt that separation from God, and rightfully so.

[Jonathan] (18:54 - 18:58) Shame initially came to humanity as a result of disloyalty to their Creator.

[Rick] (18:59 - 19:37) Think about that. That phrase, "disloyalty to our Creator." Shame can equal disloyalty to our Creator.

Shame in the best sense. That is how we want to be able to see it, because that's how it's taught to us in Scripture. Let's go further.

There are several easy-to-identify works of the flesh that would bring shame to any followers of Jesus. Now the next scriptures, Jonathan, are your favorite scriptures in the Bible to read. They really aren't, folks! He really does not like reading them and you'll know why in a moment, but they are really important because they describe ways that we can bring shame upon ourselves before God. Galatians 5:19-21.

[Jonathan] (19:37 - 20:38) Yeah, these really are not my favorite scriptures to read: "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." The list of common but shameful things all take us out of God's favor, just like Adam was out of God's favor. A Christian's shame can come from participating in what others find acceptable and exciting. While I hate reading this list, it is so important that we did a five-part series on this called: "Do I Walk in the Spirit or the Lusts of My Human Nature?" You can start by searching the first episode number on this series--that's #1254--at ChristianQuestions.com or wherever you listen to our podcast.

[Rick] (20:38 - 21:09) It is a dramatic comparison between things that are shameful before God versus things that are glorying God in His name. We want to understand that. Let's get back to shame now.

We've got that, all those things that we can do. Those are those physical things of the earth that people look at and say, "Hey, this is exciting, this is fun." Well, shame can also come to us as Christians on a spiritual level. It's not just the earthly things that we might be doing that could be shaming ourselves before God but spiritual things as well. We're going to look at Revelation 3:17-18.

[Julie] (21:09 - 21:22) The book of Revelation describes seven churches established in Asia early on in Christianity, and each one was given a message. The message to the last church of Laodicea includes scriptures in Revelation 3:17-18:

[Jonathan] (21:23 - 21:48) "Because you say, I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing, and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see."

[Julie] (21:48 - 22:02) This is talking about spiritual shame and not physical nakedness, but we can see this parallel with Adam and Eve. The physical nakedness of Adam and Eve can spiritually be ours if we compromise our loyalty to God.

[Rick] (22:02 - 23:01) That makes spiritually shameful acts very, very, very vivid when you think about it because, okay, nobody wants to be naked before God. You just don't want to go there, and spiritually we can be. We can be if we are misrepresenting and misusing those things that are given.

A Christian's shame can come from watering down the sanctity of our call to discipleship. We have to be incredibly careful. Throughout history there have been examples of those who take the name of Christ and corrupt it, and this history is long and arduous and horrible and it started in the times of the New Testament. The gospel began with a glorious push, and not long after, the fracturing of the gospel began with these inglorious actions and these individuals taking things upon themselves, doing things that were shameful before God. Let's look at one example here, Philippians 3:17- 20:

[Jonathan] (23:30 - 23:32) "Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ."

[Rick] (23:33 - 24:25) The Apostle says it very plainly. There are many. I've told you about these individuals. They're out there.

They're enemies of the cross of Christ, and he talks about their "glory is in their shame," meaning that they are glorying—Jonathan, you read Galatians 5:19-21—they're glorying in the things along those lines, and they are corrupting the reverential sanctity of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and he's saying you've got to understand you don't want anything to do with that. We all look at that say, of course, I want to stay away. But folks, think about this; shame can come to us--not just to them, but can come to us--if we are going about our Christian lives naming the name of Christ in an unholy and a disloyal way. We can be guilty of those kinds of things on a spiritual level. Be careful.

[Julie] (24:26 - 24:35) Yeah, their consciences weren't properly tuned. We live in this "anything goes" kind of world that's in direct opposition to how we know we're supposed to live.

[Jonathan] (24:35 - 24:47) We can't help but think of the so-called "Prosperity Gospel." They have made Christianity all about earthly riches, success, and entertainment. The sacred is corrupted and made common.

[Rick] (24:47 - 25:13) We can't do that. Why can't we? Because Jesus didn't.

The Apostles didn't. Every biblical example we have didn't. We need to follow the right example, the right understanding, the right interpretation.

Let's go to another example of the difficulty of having shame enter into our Christian lives. Jonathan, let's look at 2 Corinthians 4:1-2:

[Jonathan] (25:14 - 25:32) "Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

[Rick] (25:32 - 26:43) Think about this verse for a moment. He's talking about we've got this beautiful mystery. (Editor's Note: "ministry," not "mystery.") We've received mercy.

We don't lose heart and we've renounced the things hidden. Why? Because of shame.

"The things hidden" are shameful. I sometimes wonder if this verse is not the Apostle Paul talking about himself as Saul of Tarsus, the hidden things of shame that he did. What did he do? He walked in "craftiness," "adulterating the word of God." You look at that and he's saying what was, is shameful. However, you may have been there, but you don't have to stay there.

Act in accordance with God's will and God's way, and you can walk away from all of those things. It's a very, very, very powerful point here. To renounce those shameful things that have been contrived as acceptable, is a fundamental basis upon which we can avoid shame. We need to renounce those things. Instead, what do we want to do? Instead, we want to strive to live according to the Spirit.

Now, Jonathan, you read Galatians 5:19-21. It's only fair that you be given the opportunity to read Galatians 5, the next verses, 22-24.

[Jonathan] (26:44 - 27:14) Finally, we get to the good part about our study on "Do I Walk in the Spirit or The Lusts of My Human Nature?" I read the bad list of immorality and idolatry and so on. Now here's the comparison with the good list: "But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things, there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

[Julie] (27:15 - 27:42) If we're professing Christianity, we walk in a new way. But if we're dragging shame with us from our past, we need to seek God's forgiveness and those that we might have wronged. Then we work on changing our thoughts, our words, and our actions.

We want to minimize the negative power that shame has over us. Rick, when we were preparing for this study you said, "Shame is a vice grip that can strangle the holy spirit working in us." What did you mean by that?

[Rick] (27:43 - 28:40) Well, if you've ever used a vice on a workbench; I used to build cabinets and countertops and furniture. You put something in a vice. Why do you put it in the vice? So there's no possibility it can move. It is stuck and then you can do with it what you will. Shame makes us to be stuck so that shame can do with us what it will, and when you have Satan holding the tool to do the shaping that we're stuck in the vice of shame with, we are in a bad, bad place. Shame is, make no mistake, in many, many, many, many cases, shame is a tool of the Adversary to hold us so that he can have his way in doing his work upon us. We need to be ultimately careful to make sure we don't get stuck there. Now, look, there's a lot we're going to continue to discuss to get out of that. But Jonathan, right now, let's do a quick recap here.

We're Navigating Through the Shame Game; where are we so far?

[Jonathan] (28:41 - 29:03) While coping with shame is difficult, we need to realize that it can be an alarm system of sorts. When we feel shame, we need to ask why. However, this asking must be done by seeing our shame through the eyes of God's love, mercy and plan. Seeing our shame in this way can open the door to handling it in a godly fashion.

[Rick] (29:04 - 29:42) Think of it this way. You're asleep in your shame because you're not moving anywhere. Your alarm rings and says, "Oh, it's time to wake up." That's what shame can be. It can be that alarm that says, "Wake up, get on with living." That's what we want to understand shame...the role that it can play. Now, look, all shame doesn't lend itself toward that kind of an end, but this is how we want to focus on it and we'll deal with those other pieces as we go. Here's the thing; finding ways to end up being shameful is far too easy. It just comes from everything.

What requires effort is learning how to identify ways to cope with shame.

[Jonathan] (29:43 - 29:51) The capacity to have shame seems to be widespread. How, in a practical way, can our shame become a tool of correction?

[Rick] (29:52 - 30:17) This question opens the door to many wonderful possibilities. As Christians, we are given many examples in scripture regarding the growth that can come out of our experiences with shame. As we compile and discuss several of these examples, we need to take particular note of the kinds of lessons that we can learn from this process.

[Julie] (30:18 - 30:38) We don't usually see shame and wonderful possibilities in the same sentence. But in putting together our topic today, you used what you like to call a "word study." Rick, give us a peek behind the scenes on how you choose the scriptures that we read each week.

Explain a little bit about how that works, and then let's get into some examples.

[Rick] (30:38 - 31:32) Alright. Word studies are amongst my favorite things when it comes to studying scripture, because when we're faced with, okay, we have to do a podcast, an episode on shame, how do you figure it out? What you do, what I do, what I love to do, is I like to look at the words and what they mean, and then how they're used throughout the entire New Testament, or in some cases the Old Testament, depending. I have an insatiable desire to understand what's underneath the surface. I cannot control it.

Ask the brothers and sisters at our Sunday meetings. I just can't help myself, but just dive under because I want to know. Word studies, when you look at the way words are used it tells you not only what they mean but it gives you the nuances, because you hear how the writers are using them in descriptions. These word studies are incredibly important to understand what scriptures to choose, because it guides us as to where we need to go.

[Julie] (31:33 - 31:34) Where are you getting those from?

[Rick] (31:35 - 31:35) The word studies?

[Julie] (31:36 - 31:39) Yeah. Where are you getting, what's your materials? Where are you going to get that?

[Rick] (31:39 - 31:52) Well, I look up the word in the concordance (like Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) and then I look up how many times it's used and it's translated this way or that way. I collect them, and many times in the concordance it'll say, this word came from that word. Oh, what does that word mean then?

[Julie] (31:52 - 31:53) A little treasure hunt.

[Rick] (31:53 - 32:07) That's right. No, seriously.

Then I look at that word and say, okay, now here's the way that's used. Okay, I see the connection now. It gives you a depth of understanding of scripture that wouldn't have been possible by just reading. We dig and we begin to understand and begin to see.

[Julie] (32:07 - 32:07) Okay.

[Rick] (32:07 - 32:31) Alright. Those are word studies. They're awesome. They're just awesome.

Learning to confound those outside of our ministry by way of stellar behavior while among them is one example of shame in a positive sense. I said "learning to confound those outside of our ministry." We use that word specifically, we'll get to in just a moment.

Jonathan, Titus 2:6-8:

[Jonathan] (32:32 - 33:13) "Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us." Now, "sound in speech" isn't about using correct grammar. It's having godly conversation that is helpful and strengthening. Being copies of Jesus, we should be properly representing his characteristics. This verse uses a different Greek word for "shame," meaning "to invert. That is, in a good sense, to respect," but "in a bad sense, it means to confound or confuse."

[Julie] (33:14 - 33:44) There's that "confound." Let me give you the context real quick here. The Apostle Paul individually addressed six classes of people: older men, older women, younger men, younger women, servants, and Titus himself. Any gender or age can act shamefully, but here he specifically addresses the younger men whose immaturity might limit their ability, let's just say, to have self-control, sometimes then and sometimes now. The gospel shouldn't be corrupted, in other words, by an undisciplined messenger.

[Rick] (33:44 - 34:35) Right, and the idea is to be able to put to shame, be able to confound those on the outside, who are just... all they want to do is criticize, all they want to do is persecute, but if your behavior is such, so high, they don't know how to do it, and then they've got to make things up. That's what they did to Jesus, incidentally. If we can be in his company -- amen, brother -- that's where we want to be. We just want to be there.

Alright, so that's one example of shame in a positive way, and that comes through living at a higher level of spiritual integrity. The next example is addressing the feelings of shame. We're going to talk about the feelings of shame as a tool. Why? To reset group priorities toward true Christ-likeness. To reset group priorities towards true Christ-likeness.

Julie, first of all, go ahead, help us introduce this.

[Julie] (34:35 - 34:52) Yeah, let me give you the background. The Corinthian church had a lot of issues, including spiritual pride. They looked down on the authority of the Apostles, and they were even saying bad things about the Apostle Paul's character. In 1 Corinthians 4:8, 10-14, Paul's going to get a little sarcastic with them:

[Jonathan] (34:52 - 35:04) "You are already filled, you have already become rich, you have become kings without us; and indeed, I wish that you had become kings so that we also might reign with you…"

[Rick] (35:04 - 35:20) Here he's looking at them saying, you are pretty full of yourselves. You are looking like royalty. He's basically saying, I wish it was true so we could all enjoy that together, but it wasn't true, and here's what the apostle goes into now, verses 10-13:

[Jonathan] (35:20 - 35:54) "We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are prudent in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are distinguished, but we are without honor. To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless; and we toil, working with our own hands; when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure; when we are slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become as the scum of the world, the dregs of all things, even until now."

[Rick] (35:54 - 36:05) He's drawing this dramatic comparison, saying, by the way, here's how I live. I am a servant of Christ, and here's how I am living. Let's finish these verses; verse 14:

[Jonathan] (36:05 - 36:15) "I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children." This is a wake-up call for the brethren, isn't it?

[Julie] (36:15 - 36:44) We looked at Bible commentary. Barnes Notes on the Whole Bible rephrases it like this, "It is not my design to put you to shame by showing you how little you suffer in comparison with us, though it might have this effect. I have no wish to make you ashamed, to appear to triumph over you or merely to taunt you. My design is higher and nobler than this." The point is, Paul's not trying to publicly disgrace them.

He is affectionately warning them, knock it off, this is the wrong attitude.

[Rick] (36:44 - 37:30) Right. He's telling them to feel bad about what they're doing, but he's not trying to publicly disgrace them. It is for a positive movement toward gaining their group priorities toward true Christlikeness.

Let's look at our next example. Our next example-- shame put upon a group of Christians to wake them up. Why? You wake them up so they take their mutual responsibilities regarding earthly matters seriously and conscientiously. Curiously enough, this is also in 1 Corinthians. As a matter of fact, the next example is going to be in 1 Corinthians because there were issues. Now we're going to be focusing on taking mutual responsibilities regarding earthly matters, seriously and conscientiously. Jonathan, 1 Corinthians 6:1-6:

[Jonathan] (37:30 - 38:27) "Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?" Basically, the Corinthian Christians were taking each other to local courts instead of privately resolving their issues. Continuing: "So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?" The word for "shame" here is another Greek word meaning "confusion."

[Rick] (38:28 - 39:39) I say this to your confusion. Don't you have anybody in your midst that's got godly wisdom enough to be able to help you figure things out? Are you that earthly in your thinking that you go to the courts of law when you could figure things out amongst yourselves?

What is wrong with you? There is a dramatic shame going on here. There's a confusion.

I say this to your confusion. You're saying, well, I'll show him because I'll take him to court. What the apostle is saying is, you are completely confused. You are not seeing Christ-likeness at all as what it should be. Work things out. You are brothers.

You are a family. Figure it out. We see these mutual responsibilities regarding earthly matters needing to be taken seriously and conscientiously. Our next example is similar. Shame put upon a group of Christians, incidentally the same group of Christians, the Corinthians, to wake them up to do what? To take their mutual responsibilities regarding spiritual matters, seriously and conscientiously. The last scripture was earthly matters. This one is on spiritual matters. 1 Corinthians 11:17-22:

[Jonathan] (39:40 - 39:47) "But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse."

[Julie] (39:47 - 39:57) Ah, these poor Corinthians. Paul really has to set them straight. He doesn't use the word "shame" here, but he's definitely trying to wake them up because shame can be like an alarm clock.

[Jonathan] (39:57 - 40:48) Continuing: "For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you. Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper, for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you." This uses another Greek word translated "shame." It means "to shame down; that is disgrace," or make someone blush from embarrassment, to dishonor, to make ashamed.

[Julie] (40:49 - 41:09) I like how he says, "What? Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink?" The Corinthians came from a pagan background, remember, and that culturally included wild and drunken festivals and banquets as part of worship.

Here it seems like everyone ate what they brought instead of sharing, but the rich had too much, the poor didn't have enough. They were turning the sanctity of the gospel into a party.

[Rick] (41:09 - 42:21) What you have is the Apostle looking at these Corinthians and saying, look, the previous example, look, in your earthly lives, you've got to re-frame how you treat one another. It's shameful what you're doing. In your spiritual lives, you've got to re-frame how you treat one another because it's shameful what you're doing. You shouldn't be going down these roads. You shouldn't be following this example. Put away the old man, put away the old habits, put away the old pagan rituals, the old fun and excitement and follow Christ.

For us, anything less than following Christ on that highest level can bring us shame, and that's what the Apostle Paul is teaching us here. Our next example is shame as a tool of pressure.

This is a tool of pressure. What is it for? It's toward growth and maturity regarding personal responsibility for those in Christ.

We need to be careful with this one because this can get taken out of hand very easily. We had mutual earthly responsibility, mutual spiritual responsibility, and now we have personal responsibility coming up. This comes from 2 Thessalonians 3:6-7, then verses 11-15. Let's start with 6-7:

[Jonathan] (42:21 - 42:39) "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you… "

[Rick] (42:39 - 43:08) What we're seeing is the Apostle saying, okay, look, you need to put things in check. You need to understand that when there is unruliness amongst you, it needs to be noticed. You ought to follow our example because we didn't live that way. We were the example of Christ-likeness. You should be following what we--the Apostle Paul and those who were with him--what we showed you. Here's where it brings them and this becomes a serious matter here. Verses 11-15:

[Jonathan] (43:08 - 43:47) "For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good. If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy but admonish him as a brother." Now, Rick, is this saying stay connected but from a distance?

[Rick] (43:48 - 44:27) Yeah, the tendency would be, Paul says, you know, don't associate with them. Our tendency is to cross our arms, say, "Huh, you go away, I don't want to see you again." Because Paul said, don't associate. He said, don't associate. He said, leave him behind.

We look at that, and what we're doing is we're not using shame as a tool of pressure for good. We're using shame as a tool of disgrace.

It doesn't help anybody. That's why you have to read the next verse. Don't regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

You want to bring him back. That's why you do it, so he can understand, so he can take responsibility and then he can come back.

[Julie] (44:27 - 44:29) This is talking about enabling someone.

[Rick] (44:29 - 44:29) Yes.

[Julie] (44:30 - 44:43) It's a fine line between having compassion and yet being effective. It can be tricky for anyone having issues with this. There's a lot of great advice in an older episode 963 called: "When is Compassion Wrong?" That's a good title!

[Rick] (44:45 - 45:30) Yeah. We need to understand that if someone isn't taking responsibility for themselves, to just feed into that is not helping anyone. You're not only not helping them, you're hurting them. The shame of that separation is for the purpose to get their attention so they want to be a part of things and say, "Look, I guess I have to do my part. Let me go to work. Let me be responsible. Let me grow up. Let me stop with that and start with this." It's using shame as a tool to draw someone back. That's the only way it works. It's got to be the tool to draw them back.

Make no mistake, if you're using shame to push them away because you got a little bit of that resentment in there, you're in the wrong place. Jonathan, Navigating Through the Shame Game; what do we have?

[Jonathan] (45:30 - 45:53) Using the shame of wrongdoing as a tool for growth must be done with great wisdom, mercy and spiritually-sound thinking. The only motivation allowable here is the upbuilding of those we are addressing. The moment we allow any lesser motive or objective into this mix is the moment we begin to proceed in a shameful way.

[Rick] (45:53 - 46:32) By inappropriately using the tool of shame for pressure to bring someone back, we ourselves are shameful, That's a big thing because we're supposed to be the ones who are spiritual. We're supposed to be the ones who know.

When those who are spiritual and those who are supposed to know act in a shameful way, there's a higher level of responsibility. We had better be careful as we look at this. Make sure it is godly integrity that is driving us here.

This is serious. To address or use shame in a godly manner is only and ever for the purpose of building anyone and everyone up in faith.

[Jonathan] (46:33 - 46:42) Shame is everywhere. Great! How might we go about not only understanding it but appropriately rising above it?

[Rick] (46:42 - 47:08) Alright. Well, this question needs to be divided into two pieces. First, we need to address the kind of shame that we might feel within ourselves but that does not have a foundation in the reality that surrounds us. That's one kind. Second, we need to address the shame that is genuinely put upon us by our experiences or our own thoughts and actions.

[Julie] (47:08 - 47:20) In other words, perceived shame, like there's someone who's making us feel "less than" or making us feel ashamed for something that we shouldn't, versus legitimate shame when we've done something that does need correcting--that alarm clock.

[Rick] (47:20 - 47:46) Right, right. We've got shame that we sort of build up in our minds that doesn't have a basis, and shame that's real because something is there that brings shame with it. Regarding the shame that we may unduly put upon ourselves, the first kind, the kind that we sort of create within our own hearts and minds, whatever the reason it's there, if we are repentant and bent on doing God's will, that shame can be tamed.

Let's look at 2 Corinthians 10:4-5:

[Jonathan] (47:46 - 48:15) "For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations (The King James Version calls this casting down imaginations, meaning our thoughts) and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ." Our imaginations could certainly create reasons to create shame. We can judge ourselves into a corner and end up isolated.

[Julie] (48:16 - 49:37) This is a huge problem with bullying, both online and in real life, like in the workplace for example. Add judgments and cruelty to our own insecurities and instead of "taking every thought captive" to Christ, we emotionally spiral on a path of self-loathing. I found a great quote in an article at psychologytoday.com called "Bullying, Mobbing, and the Role of Shame" by Janice Harper, PhD. "Mobbing (new term I hadn't heard of before) is collective bullying." Here's the quote: "For the target, being shamed is a humiliating experience as they are systematically told and reminded that their worth as a human is not valued. As the target is shamed, they withdraw into themselves, begin to feel inherently flawed and worthless, and in an ironic twist of the knife, metaphorically join the aggressors through self-loathing. Just as the aggressors made it clear they are unwanted and not valued, the target of bullying or mobbing feels, on some level, that they must be what they are viewed as. As the bullying behavior turns to mobbing, more and more people join in on the shaming, and the sheer number of people who turn against them reinforces the sense that if 'everyone' feels that way, then there must be something to it." How sad.

[Rick] (49:37 - 50:23) It's despicable. It's absolutely despicable that humanity would engage in such practices against humanity. Just that alone is awful, but being that person who is alone and shamed and bullied, it is such a lonely, lonely place.

Remember the woman at the well? Remember how Jesus was able to open the door to a bright light of future because he included her? Folks, we need to be aware of these things.

This is one of those things. Our imaginations, our thoughts can create a place that's like that, that we don't need to be in because we didn't do anything deserving such things. The practice of "taking every thought captive" to Christ includes sending certain thoughts away. Okay, well where do you send them? 1 Peter 5:6-7:

[Jonathan] (50:25 - 50:34) "Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time, casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you."

[Julie] (50:34 - 50:58) Instead of hiding from God, like Adam and Eve, we are supposed to present it to Him in prayer and then leave it with Him. Problem is, that's much easier said than done, because we do that but the answer or the deliverance or the change of situation isn't instantaneous. We still have to live in that moment.

Often those moments are anxious. They're filled with anxiety and uncertainty. How do we make these texts practical and not theoretical?

[Rick] (50:59 - 52:12) Well, one of the things we need to do is apply the faith that we say we have. We say, "Okay, I'm going to cast my anxiety upon God." Now here's a typical scenario.

"I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm just going to do it.

I'm going to do it. Lord, here, here's my anxiety." Five minutes later, it's back. You say, "I didn't do it." Here's what we have to do. Folks, what we need to do is again and again and again in faith say, "Lord, You can see how weak I am. I'm going to work on it again. Please help me to leave it with You. Let me try again." Look, we may fail again and again and again and again. That doesn't mean He's not ready to capture it. It means that we just have to position ourselves to leave it.

That's a process. It can be difficult, especially when we're naturally anxious or depressed. Sometimes, folks, sometimes you need help. I was just talking to one of the brotherhood today. They're going through a hard, essentially shameful type of an experience. You know what they said to me?

They said, "I just need someone to talk to." Sometimes that helps to put it into perspective. Don't be afraid to look for that.

Romans 15:1-3 helps us see that:

[Jonathan] (52:12 - 52:50) "Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not just please ourselves. Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his edification. For even Christ did not please himself; but as it is written, THE REPROACHES OF THOSE WHO REPROACHED YOU FELL ON ME." If we are struggling with shame, we can seek out someone who is spiritually sound to help us work through it. Sometimes a trusting third party is a good answer. This works in reverse, too.

If someone needs our help, we should stand ready to be available in a godly, confidential manner.

[Rick] (52:50 - 53:41) Thank you for that emphasis. Confidential. It is such a relief.

Remember when Jesus trusted the woman at the well, how it changed her life? When someone can trust you, or you can trust someone with this difficult shame, it opens a door for hope. It opens a door for inclusion, and many times this kind of shame is built up bigger than it has to be inside of our minds so we need that extra help. We're looking at that kind of shame that we can build inside of our minds. Let's now take a look at the kind of shame that comes from the outside in, that has a justifiable path toward our life. What do we do with that? Well, when it comes to shame in our lives that others can see, our answer is to follow Jesus' own example.

That sounds like a simple thing, but let's look at how we need to do that. Hebrews chapter 12:2-3:

[Jonathan] (53:42 - 54:17) Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him who has endured such hostility by sinners against himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. " "Despising the shame" doesn't mean he hated going through it. The Greek word for "despising" here means "to think against; that is, to dis-esteem." In other words, he made little of it because his mission was so much bigger. It didn't deter him.

[Rick] (54:17 - 55:45) Now look, Jesus did nothing shameful, but yet he was treated in the most publicly shameful process possible at that time. He was a perfect man. As a matter of fact, there had been no man in the history of mankind perfect like Jesus.

He was perfect. He was undefiled. He never did anything wrong, and yet he is hung on a cross.

He's hung naked on a cross, accused as a blasphemer of God, and left there to be tortured and to die as people march in front of him, spitting at him and yelling at him and throwing things. The Romans did this because the shame was so great it would deter people from falling out of line. What the scripture is saying is Jesus did not give that shame, the shame of the cross, he didn't give it credit. He didn't look at it and say, this is a big thing. He looked at it and said, this is what I must do.

This is what I will embrace so that I may pay for the sins of those who are mocking me, those who are hurting and killing, and those who are doing all of these evil things. That's his example. Even if the shame isn't deserved, but it's there because it's a physical thing, that's Jesus' example. Can we stand in the way Jesus stood? There's a big, big difference between enduring the cross and tolerating the cross. He endured it.

He stayed under its weight. That's where we need to be here.

[Julie] (55:45 - 56:05) Well, moving on for us, using that as the example, we're going to suggest four scriptural ways to deal with our own shame, and the first is, meditate on Jesus' own fortitude in embracing this shame of the cross. Remember, this mob made fun of him, so see, mobbing isn't anything new. Jesus absorbed it all, so he definitely understands how we feel.

[Rick] (56:06 - 56:26) Meditate on Jesus. Now let's go to the next level. Throughout his entire ministry, the Apostle Paul was never ashamed of the gospel either. Let's take a look at two examples. First is Romans. Romans was written in the middle of his ministry, but here's his attitude, written in the book of Romans, right at the beginning; Romans 1:14-16:

[Jonathan] (56:26 - 56:46) "I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome. For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."

[Rick] (56:46 - 57:18) He says, "I am not ashamed of the gospel," I stand for it, doesn't matter what it brings to me, that's where I stand, that's how I stand, and here's why I stand. The shame was of no consequence to him. Fast forward to near the end of his life, when he wrote 2 Timothy. This was the Apostle Paul's farewell address. Notice, he's going to talk about shame and the lack of it, but notice where he begins his discussion of having no shame in these verses. Jonathan, let's go to 2 Timothy 1:8-12:

[Jonathan] (57:18 - 57:35) "Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me his prisoner (Paul was literally imprisoned at this time), but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works,..."

[Julie] (57:35 - 57:41) In other words, don't be ashamed of Jesus, me, my imprisonment, my death sentence, none of this; move on.

[Jonathan] (57:41 - 57:56) "...but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,..."

[Rick] (57:56 - 58:13) All of this so far has been telling Timothy, no reason for shame. It may look it, it may feel it, the world may tell you it, everybody may be talking about it, but do not stand in shame, stand in the glory of the gospel of Christ. Now he turns to himself.

Verses 11-12:

[Jonathan] (58:14 - 58:40) "...for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher. For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day." In other words, I'm standing firm for what I believe to be true. It's going to cost me my life very soon. I'm not ashamed, even though I am experiencing humiliation.

[Rick] (58:41 - 58:57) I am separated from everyone. The work that I so love to do, I'm being held away from, and I am standing firm. Stand like me.

He's going to be beheaded, not too much in the future here. Stand like me in Christ.

[Julie] (58:57 - 59:04) We are to meditate on Jesus' example and then follow Paul's example of his shameless stand for Christ, even to the very end.

[Rick] (59:04 - 59:22) You meditate on Jesus, you follow Paul's example. Let's go to the next level; rise above shame. Realize that the shame put upon us by the world is actually a badge of honor. 1 Peter 3:13-17:

[Jonathan] (59:22 - 1:00:00) "Who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good? But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame. For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong."

[Rick] (1:00:00 - 1:00:51) If you're standing for that which is right, if you're standing in Christ, it says, "do not fear their intimidation." Bullies, that's what they do. They intimidate.

When we are intimidated we feel shame, because we don't feel capable of standing up to that which is bearing down on us. The Apostle Peter here is saying, don't give in to the intimidation, but instead "sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts." Be ready to make a defense.

You may not get a chance. Be ready. It doesn't matter.

Understand it doesn't matter, because you are in the hands of the providence of God. Whatever external shame they may bring to you, it doesn't have to be a part of what you bring to your hearts. If you sanctify Christ in your hearts, you can stand up to these things.

[Julie] (1:00:52 - 1:01:02) We meditate on Jesus, we follow Paul's example, and then we accept that shame in the eyes of others is bound to come and realize that it actually can honor God.

[Rick] (1:01:03 - 1:01:14) It actually honors God. That's such an important point. Now let's move on to the last piece of this. Let's go back to 1 Corinthians 1:25-29:

[Jonathan] (1:01:45 - 1:01:47) "…the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God."

[Julie] (1:01:47 - 1:02:11) These are unexpected opposites. Paul knew this firsthand. He said in 2 Corinthians 12:7-9 in part, "I can even enjoy weaknesses, suffering, privations, persecutions, and difficulties for Christ’s sake. For my very weakness makes me strong in Him." All the opposites.

[Rick] (1:02:11 - 1:02:38) What this verse is saying is, if you're weak, if you're not noble, and you've been called to Christ, good! That's exactly who God wants. He doesn't want people that are full of themselves. He wants people that have space to be full of Christ.

That's what it is. You put yourself in that position, and it's easy to be shamed. But understand that who you stand for, what you stand for, and how you stand are glorying God Almighty.

The shame therefore goes to the world, even if it feels like it's coming to you. Julie, put this together now.

[Julie] (1:02:38 - 1:02:50) We meditate, we follow, we accept, and finally embrace. We embrace the fact that Jesus' true disciples as a whole are not who the world would choose, but this also brings honor to God.

[Rick] (1:02:50 - 1:03:07) It does. It brings honor to God to embrace it. Folks, these are difficult things, but this is the way humanity works in a sinful state.

Shame can overwhelm us, but there are ways, there are ways to put it back in its perspective. Jonathan, let's wrap this. Navigating Through the Shame Game, where are we?

[Jonathan] (1:03:08 - 1:03:30) It's important to acknowledge the fact that shame is prevalent in our world and always has been. True Christians should realize that appropriately placed shame is there to awaken us out of the stupor of earthly thinking and reactions. Additionally, any shame we have unjustly placed upon ourselves ought to be immediately brought to God in prayer and left with Him.

[Rick] (1:03:31 - 1:04:24) Again, that's a little bit difficult to do, but understand shame comes from two different basic perspectives. It comes from the perspective of the world outside of us, and we need to be able to cope with that and realize that if we are standing for God through Christ, we can work through it. It comes from within us, things that we can actually make up. Those things we may need help getting rid of because that shame is inappropriate and it keeps us from honoring God. Shame can be a tool to bring us to God, and it can also be something we need to simply put away over time, small step by small step. In any case, use shame to glorify God. Make sure that's where we are. Think about it. Folks, we love hearing from our listeners.

We welcome your feedback and questions on this episode and other episodes at ChristianQuestions.com. Coming up in our next episode: "Is My Life On Fire For Christ?"

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