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Announcer (00:00:00): Think about the Bible like you never have before. You are listening to Christian Questions. Experience more episodes, videos and Bible study resources at ChristianQuestions.com. Our topic is: "How Can We Become Influencers?" It's a different world. Not too long ago, kids would say they wanted to be a fireman or a nurse or a teacher when they grew up. Now kids want to be podcasters or influencers. It used to be that having influence meant having responsibility. Now having influence equates to having fame. What changed? Here's Rick, Jonathan and Julie.

Rick (00:00:37): Welcome everyone. I'm Rick. I'm joined by Jonathan, my co-host for over 25 years. And Julie, a longtime contributor, is also with us. Jonathan, what's our theme scripture for this episode?

Jonathan (00:00:48): Hebrews 12:3: "For consider him who has endured such hostility by sinners against himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart."

New Speaker (00:01:00): Influence. We are all touched by it in countless ways and countless times each and every day of our lives. Influence comes from all corners of life. If we're partial to someone, we generally accept their influence positively. If we're at odds with someone, we generally look down upon their influence. Either way, they influence us. Influence comes from advertising and social media. It comes from politicians and educators. It comes from books, movies and shows. It comes from those who enforce and those who break the law. It comes from our superiors, our peers and our subordinates. Influence has become such a central factor in our world that we now focus on and follow those whom we call "influencers." To have influence is to have power. To have power is to have control, and to have control can easily bring the manipulation and domination of others. So, we are talking about becoming influencers and how to put this all in order. So Jonathan, let's start. What does "influence" even mean?

Jonathan (00:02:09): Well, the dictionary definition of "influence" includes: the power or capacity of causing an effect in indirect or intangible ways to sway.

Rick (00:02:22): So, you've got this definition: cause an effect. For my personal purposes, I look at influence, my personal, here's the Rick definition, if you will: It's the ability to affect, alter or change the heart thinking or actions of others. So, influence is a big deal! It's a really big deal in life.

Julie (00:02:47): When you have that ability, it's a serious power to use for good or for your own personal gain. And we don't want to downplay the influence we have on our coworkers, our peers, our teachers, our students. Even if our sphere of influence is just those who are in our own house, It's good to be aware of it.

Rick (00:03:04): We need to be aware of it. And that's the whole point of taking and putting a two-part series together here so we can understand it and really see how it works from both sides. The idea of "influencers" is certainly nothing new. The Apostle Paul, he was very outspoken about influence. 1 Corinthians 11:1:

Jonathan (00:03:30): "Be followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." The Greek word for followers here literally means: an imitator. The scripture is saying, act like I act and say what I say; be an imitator of me.

Rick (00:03:45): That's a pretty big responsibility that the Apostle Paul has taken upon himself. We're going to come back to him a little bit later and expand why he said those kinds of things. He also talked about influence in 1 Corinthians 4:14-17. We're going to touch on the scripture now, but we're going to come back to it later.

Jonathan (00:04:07): "I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. Therefore, I exhort you, be imitators (that is the same word for followers) of me. For this reason, I have sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, and he will remind you of my ways which are in Christ, just as I teach everywhere in every church."

Rick (00:04:42): So, when you look at this verse, and again we're going to talk touch on it later, but you look at this verse and he's really saying, you need to imitate me. I'm sending Timothy to make sure you imitate me. How did he get to that point? It's a really fascinating look once we get there. But for now, let's talk a little bit, let's look a little bit at modern-day influencers. Julie, what do we have?

Julie (00:05:03): There has been celebrities and sports stars as spokespeople for products for decades. Think Michael Jordan and Nike, Michael Jackson and Pepsi. The difference between being a spokesperson and an influencer is an influencer is someone who's built a following online. Companies pay people to promote their products who have a lot of followers on social media. The influencer then makes continuous content in the form of videos, photo posts, podcast episodes where they recommend the products and services. Influencers range from famous, or infamous, celebrities or sports stars to just a regular person who comes across as being your friend or somehow relatable.

Jonathan (00:05:45): The top influencers are outrageously popular, reaching hundreds of millions of people waiting to hear and see what they have to say next. Currently, the number one influencer on Instagram, for example, is Portuguese footballer Christiano Ronaldo with 733 million followers. He generates an average of $3.23 million per sponsored posts. He sells everything from shoes to nutritional supplements to shampoo.

Julie (00:06:19): That's a lot of shampoo! There are some common characteristics that we want to look at of these content creators that the world seeks after, like those who appear successful: People love to use the word "aspirational." They want the life of success, however that is defined, and they want to see others living the life they want.

Jonathan (00:06:42): Those who are popular and have the appearance of knowledge: People want "edu-tainment." Yes, that is a word. Educational entertainment. The world also seeks those who are self-serving: That means putting their own interests above others. But this is typically portrayed in a positive way, as that's how you achieve "success" over others.

Julie (00:07:06): Another characteristic that the world likes to see is those who are agenda-driven: You need more content to bring in more followers, which brings in more money and endorsements to bring you more and more success. The beast must be fed!

Jonathan (00:07:20): Next, those with a self-appointed opportunity: While only the very few will be what's called "mega influencers," with more than a million followers who get paid a million dollars or more a post, there's a low barrier to entry. Anyone can turn on a camera and create.

Julie (00:07:39): And lastly, the world loves those who are obsessed: We love to watch people at the top of their game, and we love to watch them more as they fall. Influencers are often referenced by category. So, there are specialized travel influencers, influencers in beauty, fitness, food, lifestyle, fashion and more.

Rick (00:07:58): Okay. So, there's a lot going on in the world of influence and it's very, very, very different than it used to be because of the internet, because of social media, because of the way we gather our information now. We have all of these things that the world looks for in these influencers, and these six points that you guys just mentioned are going to come into play a lot as we go through this two-part series on influence. Let's put things in order, though. Jesus was, and is, the greatest influencer the world has ever, or will ever, see. And he did it without social media. How come? Why? Why is he the world's greatest influencer? Well, there's a lot to be said here. First of all, he performed godly works and miracles and kept performing them in spite of doubt and opposition. So, when he was here the first time, in his first advent, he was doing things with a lot of opposition, but he just kept on doing them. John 12:37-38:

Jonathan (00:09:00): "But though he had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in him. This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah, the prophet, which he spoke, Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" The question we need to ask is, why were they not believing in him?

Rick (00:09:20): I know. You look at the signs, you say, well that is pretty obvious. Well, why do people not believe things that are obvious today? There's skepticism, there's other forms of looking at things. There's, there's the previously set up agenda. There were all of those things existed in those days. And so Jesus did not have worldwide acceptance immediately and forever because you have all of those other pieces playing into the whole picture. And that is where influencers become so important in in our world. Let's look a little bit more at Jesus though. Jesus, his influence though challenged, it touched many even of those who were supposed to stand against him. This adds an interesting twist to your previous question, Jonathan. John 12:42-43:

Jonathan (00:10:06): "Nevertheless, many even of the rulers believed in him, but because of the Pharisees, they were not confessing him for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue for they love the approval of men rather than the approval of God." So, some did believe in him but were scared to show it.

Rick (00:10:26): Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Julie (00:10:29): Today's influencers, I just wanted to say ultimately target the wallet. Jesus targeted the heart.

Rick (00:10:35): And that is such an important point. Target your...So, you're getting a sense of influence is for the purpose of "fill in the blank," and we generally know what the blank is: buy something, go a certain direction, follow this, that or the other thing, Jesus targeted the heart. He targeted changing the lives for the better of those that he was to influence.

New Speaker (00:11:01): His power to influence came to him in a unique way from the highest of sources. And we know that from John 12. We're continuing in John 12:49-50:

Jonathan (00:11:11): "Where I did not speak on my own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. Therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me."

Julie (00:11:27): This is why Jesus is in a category all by himself as the strongest godly influencer of all creation for all time. He was perfectly aligned with his Father.

Rick (00:11:38): And it's pretty inspiring to think that he several times said, I speak what the Father tells me to speak. I am not acting of my own accord. I am doing what He has sent me here to do. And that is the most important thing. Well, the results of Jesus' influence would eventually touch every human being who ever lived. We know that from John 5:28-29:

Jonathan (00:12:04): "Do not marvel at this for an hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come forth. Those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life and those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

Rick (00:12:18): We know that according to scripture, that word for "judgment" does not mean a stamp of approval or disapproval, but it means a period of trial. In other words, Jesus' influence will bring all men to life and/or to the opportunity for life. Now that is influence that nobody can match. Okay? Nobody can do that. And we're talking about all of humanity throughout all of history. I say, I vote Jesus is the best influencer ever. All in favor?

Julie (00:12:48): I'll follow.

Rick (00:12:49): Okay.

Jonathan (00:12:49): Me, too.

New Speaker (00:12:50): So, Jonathan, as we're looking at this and understanding the world's influence and the influence of Jesus, let's work on Illuminating the Power of Influence.

Jonathan (00:13:00): Those with influence truly do have the power. This power can and will ultimately be implemented in accordance with the influencer's most important objectives. This means that those who are influenced have given control to those who influence.

Julie (00:13:19): Now let's turn this inward and ask, how aware am I of the amount of authority I give to any and all influencers in my life? We turn control over to another person when we are looking to them for direction. Am I easily influenced, or can I remain objective with what I see online?

Rick (00:13:38): So, to be influenced is not necessarily a bad thing, but to be influenced without thinking about it and observing it, that's where we have to begin to draw the lines. The power of influence can be a tremendous help to others as well as a serious detriment to others. The question is, are we paying attention?

Jonathan (00:14:02): How can we know if the influencers that we may be attracted to, or follow, are good or bad for us?

New Speaker (00:14:09): Understanding where an influencer might lead us can often come down to one very simple question, and that is, why? Why is this or that influencer doing what they are doing? Why are they pointing us in the particular direction that they have chosen? Getting a grip on the influencer's "why" will ultimately help us to get a grip on our own choice to follow or turn away. And folks, of everything we talk about, this is key. If you want to decide, is that influencer somebody I should follow? Ask the question, why are they doing what they're doing? To begin unfolding this profound question of why, we're going to look at a comparison between the two greatest influencers our world has ever seen. Yes, we know who they are, okay? We know who they are. We're going to compare Satan before he was called Satan, as Lucifer, to Jesus before he was called Jesus, he was called the Logos. So we're going to look at those two in comparison one to another and understand this question of "why."

Jonathan (00:15:24): They are exact opposites. In the big picture, Satan's influence put billions of people into a grave. Jesus' influence will call each and every one of those billions out of that grave.

Rick (00:15:38): Alright, so you've got that sense of, okay, exact opposites. Let's look more deeply now. Let's examine the "why" for each of these two.

Julie (00:15:49): We're going to go to Isaiah 14. Isaiah 14 applies to the rise and fall of literal Babylon, but it also gives us a glimpse into the spirit realm describing Satan's fall. Isaiah 14:12 says: "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!" So, let's look at Satan's "why." It was personal glory and power. We see that from two verses later, Isaiah 14:14: "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." So, his motivation is clear. He wanted to be like God to be in a higher position than he was. Even as that title of "son of the morning" - he was this angelic being of high order, but that wasn't good enough.

Jonathan (00:16:35): Jesus' "why" was to honor God fully and eternally. 1 Peter 1:18-20: "Knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. For he was foreknown before the foundation of the world but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you." Think about the power of those words. He was foreknown. Foreknown for what? For Jesus to be the willing sacrifice, ready to do whatever his Father asked of him.

Rick (00:17:17): Or you could look at the one who said, "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will make myself like the Most High." I mean, which one of those, when you look at them, do you say, there's a "why" that I can trust? See, and that is really what it comes down to is the "why" a reason that you can truly, absolutely bank on. With Satan, it was to elevate himself. Folks, is that really a good "why" to trust in anybody, or do we look at the humility of honoring and serving God Almighty forever and ever and ever? That is something we can trust, we can bank on. So now that we see the "why" so clearly marked, and you're right, Jonathan, they're exact opposites, let's see what kind of influence came from that "why." Let's do this. Let's revisit the list of what the world looks for in influencers and see how Satan and Jesus fit into those descriptions.

Julie (00:18:14): Okay, here we go. The world looks for those who appear successful. And Satan fits this description in Ezekiel chapter 28, Lucifer, originally this high and mighty spirit being is allegorically described as the king of Tyre. Ezekiel 28:11-17: "Again the word of the LORD came to me saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD, you had the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty." What does that mean? Lucifer had this seal of perfection. He had success and elevation. He was only one of only two spirit beings called "morning stars." He's big and important in the spiritual realm at this point.

Jonathan (00:18:59): Well, Jesus was simply humble. He didn't fit the world's influencer expectation. Philippians 2:6-8: "...although he (Jesus) existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond‐servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." Note, Jesus was successful. Like Lucifer, he was also called a "morning star," but he was successful and humble, an entirely different use of his great position than Lucifer. Jesus did not flaunt his greatness. The fact that he has always done his Father's will makes him glorious and the one we should follow.

Rick (00:19:54): We have both of these successful, absolutely successful in the spirit realm beyond our comprehension, both are in the same category of incredibly successful, and yet one takes that incredible success and internalizes it to make something that shouldn't be, while the other doesn't draw attention to the success, but essentially gives it a way for the purpose of doing what the Father would have. Take your time. Which one is trustworthy? That is the point of understanding the "why." Which is trustworthy. What's the next comparison?

Julie (00:20:33): The world looks for those who are popular and appear knowledgeable. Satan fits that description. Going back to Ezekiel 28:13-14 it says: "You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering...On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were the anointed cherub who covers, and I placed you there..." This is a really profound set of scriptures. Here Lucifer is said to have been covered in precious stones. Precious stones are enduring. They have high value. It says he was anointed. And this word means: it's in the sense of expansion, outstretched like with outstretched wings. God appointed Lucifer to cover Eden with his outstretched wings and protect it. Lucifer was apparently so valued as to have been appointed this covering cherub to oversee these new humans in the garden. He was trusted, and he abused the trust. What about Jesus?

Jonathan (00:21:38): Jesus was informed and educated. He didn't fit the world's influencer expectation. Psalms 4:7-8: "Then I said, Behold, I come; in the scroll of the book it is written of me. I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart." There is a difference between being popular and appearing knowledgeable online and actually being knowledgeable. There's a reason the expression "fake it 'til you make it" is so popular. Jesus knew the Law in his heart, and he was able to act upon it.

Rick (00:22:14): So again, you see a comparison here. One of the things that strikes me is it says in the Ezekiel scripture about Satan, "every precious stone was your covering." It was showing your value. And in Psalms 47:7-8, it's talking about Jesus' value by having God's Law written in his heart. The value was from within, and it was so well entrenched that he was absolutely reliable to be able to fulfill God's will for eternity. So, you have appearing popular and knowledgeable. Yeah, Lucifer qualified as popular and knowledgeable, but he had too much of himself, where Jesus didn't take self into consideration in what he knew. Instead, he applied God's Law to his very heart. Which one of those do you rely on? Which one can you say, Yeah, this is what I count on going forward. What's the next comparison?

Julie (00:23:11): Now the world looks for those who are self-serving, and once again, Satan fits the description. We go back to Ezekiel 28:14:15 it says: "...You were on the holy mountain of God; you walked in the midst of the stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until unrighteousness was found in you." So, on God's holy mountain, Lucifer was part of God's holy governance. In Scripture, mountains often symbolically represent governments. "Amidst the stones of fire," what does that mean? Perhaps it means "amidst the stars" indicating the magnitude of his power and glory under God. He was high up in this hierarchy of heavenly hosts, like we said. He had every top-tier advantage, but self-elevation took him down, and he took all of mankind with him.

Jonathan (00:24:02): Our next comparison: Jesus was filled with integrity. He didn't fit the world's influencer expectation. Luke 22:41-42: "And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and he knelt down and began to pray, saying, Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from me; yet not my will, but Yours be done." What a dramatic difference between Lucifer saying, "I will be like the Most High" and Jesus saying, "Yet not my will, but Yours be done."

Rick (00:24:37): Whom do you serve? Satan, according to that scripture, obviously served himself. He had the responsibility given by God and chose to use it in a self-serving way, where Jesus, on the other hand, had the responsibility given by God and chose to put his own preference aside. There is a dramatic world of difference between those two. And when it comes to trusting somebody, who do you trust? He who serves himself, or he who serves the Lord God Almighty? It's a simple question with a very straightforward answer. What's the next comparison?

Julie (00:25:11): The world looks for those who are agenda driven. And Satan fits this description, too. Ezekiel 28:16 says: "By the abundance of your trade you were internally filled with violence, and you sinned..." The eons of time Lucifer stood in an authoritative position before God caused him to see himself as the object of loyalty rather than a tool of loyalty to God. That means he was owed loyalty from others instead of giving his loyalty to God. He's compared to this king of Tyre we talked about. And so we compare him to the king of Tyre's sins. Tyre was a highly commercialized city-state focused on winning and profit. There's a Bible commentary by David Guzik that said: "Satan's abundance of trading was found in his competitive spirit, his desire to be exalted above his associates."

Jonathan (00:26:06): The next comparison, Jesus' only agenda was God's will. He didn't fit the world's influencer expectation. Isaiah 61:1-2: "The spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me to bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to captives and freedom to prisoners; to proclaim the favorable year of the Lord and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn." Jesus did exactly what he was sent to do. He didn't have an agenda; he had God's will laid out for him. Jesus had more of a checklist than an agenda, and it was all his Father's agenda. This is what we want for our lives to only be driven by our heavenly Father's will for us.

Rick (00:27:00): So, with Satan, he had this agenda-driven opportunity, this sense of "I've got this, and I can get more, and I can get more, and I can get more, and I can get more." And Jesus, his objective was, "I can give more, I can give more, I can give more, I can give more." It's a whole different thing. The agenda was the will of God. Who do you trust? The one who wants to get or the one who's always giving? Next comparison.

Julie (00:27:27): The world looks for those with a self-appointed opportunity. And Satan fits this description, too. Ezekiel 28:16 says: "...therefore I have cast you as profane from the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire." God removed him from heaven because he was now a desecration and a polluting influence to the holiness of God's governance. When he was destroyed as a covering cherub, not only was he removed from his lofty position, but he was removed from all heavenly places. He was fired from being a covering cherub.

Jonathan (00:28:06): Next comparison: Jesus responded to a God-appointed opportunity. He didn't fit the world's influencer expectation. Isaiah 6:8: "Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us? Then I said, Here am I. Send me!" This is a prophetic utterance which identifies Jesus as the willing one. There's a dramatic difference between being self-appointed and God appointed. Again, Jesus only and always represented the will of his Father. When given the opportunity to pay the ransom price to eventually restore humanity and reconcile them back to God, we are told here he was ready to volunteer without hesitation.

Rick (00:28:53): So, you have that original influencer, Satan or Lucifer, who was this covering cherub, who was cast out of heaven. He was sent out of heaven. Jesus, the Logos, prophetically, we see who will go, and he says, "Here am I; send me." He was sent from heaven to undo what Lucifer had done. He's the influencer that brings humanity back from the damage that had been done by Lucifer. Who are you going to trust? Are you going to trust - as an influencer - are you going to trust the one who was sent from God or the one God sends away? Take your pick. It's a pretty simple thing. Last comparison:

Julie (00:29:33): Sure. The world looks for those who are obsessed, and Satan fits this description as well. Ezekiel 28:17 says: "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor..." We all need to be on guard against feeling entitled. Lucifer perceived his personal beauty as an entitlement, and his wisdom succumbed to the brightness of his glory. He felt entitled to being THE spirit being, and it corrupted everything else about him. His loyalty to God was lost, and his obsession won't end because we're told he will be destroyed. He cannot be saved from his own free will.

Jonathan (00:30:11): Finally, Jesus was mightily disciplined. He didn't fit the world's influencer expectation. Hebrews 12:2-3: "Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him who has endured such hostility by sinners against himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart." Make Jesus your influencer. Consider him. Meaning meditate on him, follow him so you don't lose heart. His influence is pure godliness.

Rick (00:30:53): He endured the hostility of sinners against himself. Satan created the hostility of sinners against him. Who are we going to trust? The one who was obsessed with self-glorification, or the one who was mightily disciplined to perform that which was necessary and difficult to glorify God and God only? Folks, this is a lesson on spiritual influencers that we need to understand. We've got to look at this and say, what is this teaching us? What is this showing us? Jonathan, let's go to Illuminating the Power of Influence and see.

Jonathan (00:31:26): As we have uncovered what the "why" of Satan's influence produces, we can now easily see how many of our present-day influencers follow his pattern, and how easy it is to follow them. On the contrary, the pattern of influence that Jesus set, was higher and nobler and the results were so much greater, but it's harder to follow.

Julie (00:31:51): Let's turn this inward and ask an influence question. How willing am I to walk away from that which is common and easy, and reach for godly and righteous-based influence? I'm surprised that what the world loves today about today's influencers seem to follow this Satanic pattern. That is an unexpected comparison, Rick.

Rick (00:32:11): It might be unexpected, but when you look at it, and when you back up and think about it a moment, it is very predictable because this is Satan's world, and really, Satan's world is all about "me." That is what he said, that is what he did, and that is what we have learned. That's is why influence has to be looked at with such critical eyes that we are not following those who are simply self-absorbed, but we are following those who are leading us someplace toward righteousness. It is downright astounding to see how easily we follow those influencers who are essentially following Satan's own guide to success!

Jonathan (00:32:51): Deciding to walk away from what is common might be easy. How do we practically and firmly follow through on that decision?

Rick (00:32:59): Well, the bottom line here is that there's no easy way to follow through with such dramatic change. Accomplishing this major shift all comes down to being able to answer the hard questions that come with our eyes being opened, to how easily and instinctively we follow the patterns of influence that Satan modeled. So, we need to be careful and focused in on what needs to be changed.

Jonathan (00:33:33): Rick, you're right, it's instinctive. What feels right, sounds right and looks right must be right. Wrong!

Rick (00:33:41): Yeah, and that is really the point. That's is exactly the point. Illustrating that, let's look at another present-day influencer example. Julie?

Julie (00:33:50): Okay, I have one, someone obscure who rose to near instant fame. Dylan Mulvaney is an American social media personality starting to detail her gender transition in daily TikTok videos in 2022. Now, this example is about going from obscurity to fame on social media, not transgenderism. Bud Light, the company, sent a can of beer for her to do a video promotion which led to a boycott of the brand and a lot of press. By 2023, a year later, she had received more than 10 million followers on TikTok, and her video series had received over 1 billion - with a "B" - views. Just a note, Christian Questions would love to receive over a billion views to spread the gospel message. And if everyone listening right now, just told 10,000 to 100,000 of their closest friends...Well, here's a quote from Mulvaney: "I really don't know any other place online like TikTok that can make a creator grow at the rate that it does. Some of these other apps really celebrate perfection over editing and flawlessness. I think with TikTok specifically, people love the rawness. They love people just talking to the camera, and I try to approach every video like FaceTime with a friend."

Rick (00:35:07): Okay, so you have this example of somebody rising to fame from absolute nothingness, and they're saying how great this is. Here's the problem, folks. Here's the problem, here's the problem, and if you haven't heard, here's the problem. The problem is that we give fame, whether it is right, wrong, moral or immoral, just or unjust, we give because it's a curiosity to us and we're drawn to it. And like you said, Jonathan, it sounds so easy, right? Wrong. We've got to be careful. Let's look at a biblical example of this very thing. Let's look at the example of the Apostle Paul and his influence. He was an influence for evil and then became an influence for good. We're going to begin with his fiery trial and powerful predominance as Saul of Tarsus. Saul of Tarsus, the Pharisee before he was converted to Christianity, and then walk through his becoming one of history's strongest beacons of Christian light and sacrifice. So, first we look at Saul of Tarsus and his incredibly destructive influence. It was destructive. First, context. We're going to look at Acts 22. Paul is before the Jews defending himself against the uproar that had occurred accusing him of disrespecting the Jewish faith. Now in Acts 22, these verses are right after he had spoken of his conversion and is recounting a conversation that he had with Jesus in a vision. So he's recounting to this Jewish audience what had happened to him and the things that he said in this experience. Acts 22:19-20:

Jonathan (00:36:55): "And I said, Lord, they themselves understand that in one synagogue after another I used to imprison and beat those who believed in you. And when the blood of your witness Stephen was being shed, I also was standing by approving, and watching out for the coats of those who were slaying him." Well, Paul is being completely and graphically transparent about who he was and what he did as the Pharisee named Saul.

Rick (00:37:24): He was. Paul freely admits that on several occasions he had Christians beaten and imprisoned.

Jonathan (00:37:31): And put to death.

Rick (00:37:33): Yes, and put to death. Where did the Law give him such authority? It did not. He was acting outside of the sacredness of the Jewish Law. That's where he was, that's what he was doing, and he was a major influencer in his day.

Jonathan (00:37:49): He was leading the way in the effort to destroy this new Christian movement. He had an agenda and the power to carry it out because of his high position of authority in Jewish society.

Rick (00:38:01): Saul of Tarsus, the influencer, doing the work that he was doing. Another set of scriptures we're going to take a quick look at is when the Apostle Paul (this is after his conversion) is before King Agrippa and he's doing the same thing; he's explaining what his previous life looked like. Acts 26:9-11:

Jonathan (00:38:20): "...I had to do many things hostile (meaning antagonistic) to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. And this is just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests, but also when they were being put to death I cast my vote against them. And as I punished them often in all the synagogues, I tried to force them to blaspheme; and being furiously enraged at them, I kept pursuing them even to foreign cities."

Julie (00:38:52): Saul was an influencer who championed a dark and evil cause in the name of God. He brought fear to those who stood against him, but joy and adulation to those who stood with him.

Jonathan (00:39:03): If you're not for us, you're against us.

Rick (00:39:06): And that is really the message that he poured into all of this. And he had people cheering at the apprehending of these innocent Christians. It's ridiculous when you think about it. Saul of Tarsus misapplied the Law, fed off of the perceived threat of Christianity, and used his position to leverage evil intentions. He was a great influencer and was having great success.

Julie (00:39:33): And looking back at our list, he definitely was agenda driven. He had self-appointed opportunity, and he absolutely, like you said, was obsessed.

Rick (00:39:42): He fulfilled many of the things the world looks for. He would've been somebody, the people say, Hey, follow him. He's - look at how passionate he is. Look at how driven he is. Look at all the things he's getting done. Here's the missing point. The missing point here is that Saul of Tarsus, actually, in his heart, was he was a good man. He was misdirected and violently wrong in his unbridled and rageful attempts to hurt and destroy the name of Jesus. So what happens here? What does Jesus do? Jesus takes this man with this unbridled rage, and he calls him to follow. Saul had no choice upon this calling but to embrace the pain of his own actions. He did this by courageously, repeating them, repeating his actions in detail to several different audiences, to Jews, to Romans, and to Christians. He hid his actions from no one. So, now you had this great influencer drawn away from that which was he was influencing toward, and now he was brought to another place. He was brought to a place of spiritual integrity. And the lesson we want to learn here is that great influencers have powerful integrity as a basis for their influence. Now, when I say great influencers, I'm talking about influencers for good, for righteousness, for godliness. There is an incredible, powerful integrity behind them.

Julie (00:41:10): As Saul, he was an influence for darkness with very little integrity. He bent and stretched the Law trying to manipulate people to blaspheme. That's dark.

Jonathan (00:41:19): But when Jesus called him, Paul just needed to see the error of his ways.

Rick (00:41:25): He needed to see it, and then he acted upon it. The Apostle Paul now, let's look at, we looked at Saul of Tarsus, now let's look at the Apostle Paul and his life-changing positive influence. Let's go to 1 Corinthians 15:8-10:

Jonathan (00:41:41): "...and last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain..." What humility! Here he had been a sworn enemy of God in Christ, and yet he was still called to follow. He never forgot the sins he committed. Instead of tripping on them, he used them as stepping stones to come up higher.

Rick (00:42:17): That is such an important point. The integrity made him look at his past and say, I've got to use this toward the advantage of Christ, not me; the advantage of Christ. He looks at himself and he says, I am the least of the apostles because look at what I did. He freely reminded those he taught in Christ of once he had been, what he had once been. He didn't hide it from anyone. Let's go back to the verse we quoted in the first segment. 1 Corinthians 4:14-17. And this again is about the Apostle Paul's powerful and integrity-orfilled influence.

Jonathan (00:42:55): "I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. Therefore I exhort you, be imitators (or followers) of me. For this reason, I have sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, and he will remind you of my ways which are in Christ, just as I teach everywhere in every church."

Julie (00:43:28): Be imitators of me. In other words, look at me so you can see Christ and be inspired. This was really risky for Paul. Based on his lofty position and power in his previous life as Saul, here he's telling people to follow him. If he wasn't completely, 100% transformed, he could have used and manipulated those following him for his own selfish gain, again. And instead he became just this giant arrow pointing to Christ.

Rick (00:43:57): And see, that is why his determination was so valuable because he understood what it would look like for to have been what he was and to now be what he is. His heart for God in Christ was driving his influence. He couldn't help himself. He truly embraced the brotherhood. He embraced them to bring them higher. He held nothing back that would spiritually benefit the brotherhood and encouraged them to live in such a way as to become spiritual influencers as well. So he was saying to them, look, I don't want you to just follow me. I want you to become those who others can follow. We have a tremendous example of this in 1Thessalonians 1:2-7. Jonathan, let's go 2-4 to begin with:

Jonathan (00:44:44): "We give thanks to God always for all of you, making mention of you in our prayers; constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father, knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you..."

Rick (00:45:04): So, he's accentuating: You have been chosen by God Almighty, and I deeply, profoundly appreciate that. He's grooming them to learn how to be spiritual influencers filled with spiritual integrity. Verses 5-7:

Jonathan (00:45:25): "...for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the holy spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. You also became imitators (that's that word for "followers" again) of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much tribulation with joy of the holy spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia." "So that you become an example to all the believers" - now that's an influencer! The Thessalonians became influencers to other Christians.

Rick (00:46:07): And that is the point. Folks, that's the point of our Christian lives, is to become an influence. It's not to just be influenced and say, what a blessing! It is to become an influencer for good, for righteousness, for spirituality, for God, in the integrity of following Scriptures. Great influencers live their influence fully and freely, and they don't have to worry because it's godly. That is what we're looking for. So, Jonathan, Illuminating the Power of Influence. Where are we so far?

Jonathan (00:46:37): The transformation of Saul of Tarsus to the Apostle Paul teaches us the importance of following those who have true integrity in their influence. Such integrity opens the door for true change and truly God-honoring life.

Julie (00:46:54): Let's look in the mirror and ask ourselves the question, are those I follow filled with integrity, spirituality and righteousness? This is a question for real life too, not just online. Consider this. Are our spiritual leaders coming from a place of integrity and spiritual maturity and not just to gain attention, popularity and wealth?

Rick (00:47:16): We have to ask ourselves, when's the last time I looked hard at this question? When is the last time I said to myself, Hmm, let me review what it is that influences me and see if it is in fact directly of God. Be careful with influence. To follow an influencer who had such a dramatic and genuine transformation towards God is to follow the true follower of Christ.

Jonathan (00:47:46): What about influencers who were not bad or evil, but meant well and just didn't get it right? What can we learn here?

Rick (00:47:55): This is likely a really big category to look at. I mean, think about this: How many of us in our daily experiences mean well when we repeat something we hear, only to find out that it wasn't complete or accurate? How often do we accept input without truly understanding its full meaning because it seems to make sense and it seems to support our own viewpoint? How often do we get stuck in those places?

Jonathan (00:48:23): Under the cover of caring for others and telling ourselves we meant well, we can influence through gossip, we can influence with a whisper, and even influence with silence by not saying anything in someone's defense.

Rick (00:48:39): That's a big point. So what we need to do, is we need to realize that we want to make sure that we are influencing toward the right direction with the right material. You've got to put both of those...A good example of what not to do is the Apostle Peter. He became a very powerful influencer. And there were periods and points in his life where he was an example of things - uh, you want to avoid that. And then there were, toward the end of his life, you saw, this is what you want to be like. You want to grow up and be like Peter, you want to grow up and be like Peter, you want to grow up and be like Peter. How do we get there? You go through the ups and downs of what the Apostle Peter went through. Because here's the fact, folks, sometimes we can influence others incorrectly, even though we're well-meaning. Peter is an example of that. Example: After the ascension of Jesus and the events surrounding what would happen in the interim between his ascension and Pentecost, there was the election of Matthias to replace Judas as the 12th Apostle. Peter drove that election process. Let's look at what happened there. Jesus had commanded his followers to wait in Jerusalem for God's spirit. That was his very simple, very basic, very straightforward command. Let's look at Acts 4:1-5:

Jonathan (00:50:05): "Gathering them together, he commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, which, he said, You heard of from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the holy spirit not many days from now." The apostles received simple instructions: stay in Jerusalem and wait. When the spirit comes, your guidance will start.

Julie (00:50:29): Instead of waiting, Peter met with about 120 disciples to pray and elect a replacement for Judas even though it wasn't necessary or required to be done at this time. Two candidates were proposed and the group cast lots. This was an Old Testament method of determining God's will.

Jonathan (00:50:47): They had been previously told how valuable the spirit's influence would be in their lives. Just like Jesus' ministry didn't begin until he was baptized, their ministries did not start until they were baptized at Pentecost.

Rick (00:51:02): So, you have the command to wait, but Peter looked at the circumstance and said there's a gap, we need to fill it. Well-meaning. Very well-meaning, very well-meaning. So there are several influencing lessons here in Peter's mistakes and so forth, and then his victories. What's the first influencing lesson, Jonathan?

Jonathan (00:51:25): Pay attention to all instructions that are sanctioned by God through Christ.

Rick (00:51:30): When Jesus gives us an instruction, we don't really need to add or subtract to it, right? We need to follow it as given. Follow as given. Well, here's what happened to Peter. Peter guided the followers to act before God's spirit came when their only command was to wait, as you both had said. In this scripture, Peter, in the next scripture in Acts 1 - we're going to jump down to verses 20-26 - in this scripture, Peter, in verse 20, is referring to Judas by quoting prophecy:

Jonathan (00:52:00): "For it is written in the book of Psalms, let his homestead be made desolate, and let no one dwell in it; and let another man take his office."

Rick (00:52:10): So, Peter quotes Scripture to show why he believed they should act.

Jonathan (00:52:17): But Rick, we can see Peter's "why."

Rick (00:52:21): Right, right. You can see that he's looking at the scripture, looking at the gap, saying, okay, gap. Here's the scripture. We have to do something. There's this motivation that is good. It's a wonderful motivation. It's the wrong action, but it's a wonderful motivation! We've got to look at this and say, I appreciate the zeal that we're seeing. Well, let's go a little bit further. Acts 1. Let's go to verses 21-22 now:

Jonathan (00:52:47): "Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—beginning with the baptism of John until the day that he was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."

Rick (00:53:05): Peter had the scripture, and then he suggested guidelines. He suggested, "Well, we don't have anything to go on, so let me give you some guidelines here." Watch how this starts to go off the rails. You've got the prophecy, but you've got no instructions. So he's suggesting guidelines. Now think about it. He's saying we need to pick from individuals who've been with Jesus from the very, very, very beginning. You notice that all of the existing 11 apostles didn't even fulfill what Peter was suggesting. So, Julie, what's the influencing lesson here?

Julie (00:53:42): We want to hold fast to Scripture while loosely considering our own ideas.

Rick (00:53:47): Hold fast versus a loosely considered thought. There's a big difference between those two. We can have thoughts. We're not saying don't think, but what we're saying is, everything must be done in accordance with holding fast to Scripture. So they continued, let's go to Acts 1:23-26:

Jonathan (00:54:09): "So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus) and Matthias. And they prayed and said, You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two you have chosen to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place. And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles."

Rick (00:54:35): So, Peter's suggestion led to two individuals. Two. They prayerfully, though wrongly, drew lots to decide who would be the 12th Apostle.

Julie (00:54:50): They gave, and I'll put "gave" in air quotes, the Lord two choices because they didn't leave any room for the answer to be "neither." And again, they used this Old Testament tradition of drawing lots to determine God's will when trying to establish this new way of Christianity. They had no authority to do this.

Rick (00:55:10): They had no authority, but they had Peter's suggestion. And because he had such influence, they followed Peter's suggestion. So, what's the influencing lesson here?

Jonathan (00:55:22): Being prayerful does not negate wrong conclusions.

Rick (00:55:26): Ah, okay. See, this is important because we have to understand - just because we pray over something, doesn't mean that God's like, Okay, you're great, you prayed. I can see the humility. You can imagine the humility of the 120 and of the Apostle Peter wanting to do the right thing. They wanted to, but they were on the wrong track. It's interesting, every apostle had been called by Jesus, and the replacement for Judas would be no exception. Jesus literally called every single one out of their lives. Why would we go another direction here? Just as every apostle was called from their previous Jewish lives, and not from a track record of following, so Paul would become an apostle the same way. He was plucked out of his sinful Jewish life like Matthew was plucked out of his tax collecting Jewish life. Same thing - Jesus was to do the choosing - nobody else.

Jonathan (00:56:20): Peter had tremendous influence over the disciples and unintentionally guided them down the wrong path. He was well-intentioned but ended up with the wrong answer. Remember, he was just supposed to wait!

Rick (00:56:33): It's so easy now for us to read this, right? And we read this and we go, "Yes, he was just supposed to wait - why couldn't he?" Listen, look folks, how often do we run ahead of the Lord? We grasp our scripture, we bring it in prayer, but we don't wait. We can look at Peter and say, (tsk, tsk) "Come on, Apostle Peter." But we need to look at ourselves and say, "Hey, am I being influenced by my own will over the will of God in Christ through Scripture? So, we've got Peter going down this road that was an errant road, even though his intention was pure as gold. It was just wonderful what the intention was. Now let's observe Peter just days later, just days later at Pentecost with the power of God's spirit upon him. What we're going to see is a big, big difference. The solid influence of Peter's spirit-driven leadership. That is what we're going to begin to look at here.

Jonathan (00:57:30): Acts 2:1-4 tells us that 40 days after Jesus' ascension during the Jewish festival at Pentecost, the disciples were gathered in one place. Let's read verses 3 and 4: "And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the holy spirit..."

Rick (00:57:52): They're filled with the holy spirit. You've got God's spirit acting. Now nobody's pulling the lever saying, "And...go!" This is coming from heaven down upon them, and they are filled with God's spirit, and all of a sudden being filled with God's spirit, now there is a direction that they could not have previously imagined. Just as promised, God's spirit arrives with obvious heavenly power and influence.

Julie (00:58:23): And Rick, unlike the deafening silence from God when Matthias was chosen, there was no question that this was a God-sanctioned event.

Rick (00:58:31): That's right. And what we see happen afterwards, curiously, is the Apostle Peter. Here's what happens afterwards. Let's look at Acts 2:14-16:

Jonathan (00:58:43): "But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel."

Rick (00:59:06): Now you have the Apostle Peter standing up in front of all of these hundreds and hundreds and thousands of people and saying, hang on, here's what's happening. This is a different Apostle Peter. Why? Because he's got God's spirit driving him forward instead of making suggestions. And interestingly, what happens here, first of all, we see that he's transformed. Okay? This is obviously a transformation. He is now a public leader. All of a sudden he's about to quote Scripture again. You mentioned that he was going to quote from the prophet Joel. But this time his quoting of Scripture is guided by God's spirit. What a difference here! Rather than making suggestions, he's following the guidance of God's spirit. Talk about becoming a powerful positive influencer. So Julie, what's the influencing lesson here?

Julie (01:00:00): The greatest Christian influencers are all led to scriptural truth. They don't assume it; tey're led to it.

Rick (01:00:08): We need to follow. Influencers in our world today are all about themselves. We don't want that. What Peter is showing us in doing it the right way, is follow the guidance of God's spirit, God's word, God's will, God's way, God's providence, God's wisdom, God's love, and then act accordingly. Then you can have influence in accordance with Him. So let's continue with Acts 2:37-38:

Jonathan (01:00:38): "Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? Peter said to them, Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy spirit."

Rick (01:00:56): You notice there's no casting of lots, there's no doing of anything else here. There is just the people coming forward and saying, "What do we do? What you have just told us is making us understand what's happened here. What do we do?" And Peter said, "You can be given the gift of God's spirit if you give your life to God through Christ, truly give your life to God through Christ." This is the Apostle Peter as the spiritual influencer that we look up to and say, 'I want to grow up and be like that! I want to have God's spirit driving me like that." The beautiful encouragement is, where he started and where he ended are two very different things. His heart was right in both cases, but where he ended was honestly glorifying God. So Julie, what's our influencing lesson here?

Julie (01:01:49): This is our favorite one for all of us. By following, Peter is now able to show others how to appropriately follow as well.

Rick (01:01:58): It really is pretty simple. He followed, and that's how he learned to show others to follow. The best scriptural, spiritual influence for a Christian is to follow. It's just to follow. Sometimes individuals are put in positions of leadership because, hopefully, by God's grace, because they are wonderful followers. It's all about following. So, to become an influence isn't about, hey, look at me. It's, hey, look at Christ; Christ in us, the hope of glory. That's where we're going here. What's the end result here of these verses? Acts 2:41-42:

Jonathan (01:02:40): "So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."

Rick (01:02:56): The Christian church is born right here. You now have the Christian church functioning. Didn't happen because they decided at some point not to wait, but to elect a 12th Apostle. It happened when the spirit of God came down at the appropriate time and guided them to do the appropriate things. Greatest Christian influence comes through following in the most humble way. So, Jonathan, let's wrap this up. Illuminating the Power of Influence:

Jonathan (01:03:29): Peter wanted to do the next right thing, but only accomplished that when he allowed Jesus' instruction to take place first. Let us always realize that great influencers are driven by that which is higher - by godly truth, godly principles, and godly influence.

Julie (01:03:49): The final influence question for us today is, am I treating the power of influence with enough importance each and every day?

Rick (01:03:59): Influence is a very, very serious matter. Our world has made it a matter of convenience, a matter of excitement, a matter of popularity, a matter of glitz and glitter and money and all of those things. Influence is not meant to be that way. Influence, on the other hand, is meant to be something that actually can change others' lives for the for the better. For us as Christians, we need to focus in on: Is my influence going to give others a spirituality that brings them to God through Christ, or am I leading them a different direction? You've got to look at that, consider and say, okay, it's either a good influence or a bad influence. What am I going to do about it? Folks, think about it. We love hearing from our listeners. We welcome your feedback and questions on this episode and other episodes at ChristianQuestions.com. Coming up in our next episode: "How Can We Become Influencers? (Part II)" In Part II, we're going to really work on what about those of us who are not out in front? How do you become a strong Christian influencer for godliness? Talk to you again next week.