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[David] (0:12 - 0:14) ANNOUNCER: This is Christian Questions.

[Rick] (0:19 - 0:47) Robert Green Ingersoll once said, "The greatest test of courage on earth is to bear defeat without losing heart." Good morning everyone, and welcome to Christian Questions. This isn't your typical Christian commentary.

We love talking with our audience, and we promise to never talk at you like so many talk shows do today. This is a conversation about Biblical topics as we look at them from a different perspective.

[Jonathan] (0:47 - 1:04) Rick, that perspective is based on godly principles, family values and honest dialogue, all in a politically-free zone. RICK: Jonathan, the best part is this; we talk and you listen, and then you talk and we listen.

You can also contact us at our website, ChristianQuestions.com.

[Rick] (1:04 - 1:04) I'm Rick.

[Jonathan] (1:05 - 1:05) And I'm Jonathan.

[Rick] (1:05 - 1:13) Folks, we're truly glad to have you here with us on this beautiful Sunday morning. Good morning, Jonathan. We're back in town.

JONATHAN: Yes, we are. RICK: The boys are back in town. What's the subject? What's the scripture? Let's get going.

[Jonathan] (1:15 - 1:38) All right. Well, Rick, our question is: "What did Jesus say about Israel?" Our theme text is found in Luke 13:6:

"And he began telling this parable: A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any."

[Rick] (1:38 - 2:31) It's about the fig tree. It's about Israel. It's about Jesus and what he said.

Jesus taught us about many things. He taught us how to live, what to focus on, how to be a good neighbor, how to be selfless. He taught us what the most and least important things are.

He taught us the simplicity of faith and the magnificence of faith in God. Jesus also taught us about being chosen of God and all that such choosing entails. This morning, though, we want to look at what Jesus taught us about the chosen nation of Israel by using the example of the fig tree and actually a few other things.

This is a part of his teaching that rarely gets too much attention. He mentions Israel. It's sort of like, okay, he's there.

He's a Jew. He's in Israel. He's preaching to Israel, but what does he say about Israel?

[Jonathan] (2:31 - 2:32) This will be fascinating.

[Rick] (2:32 - 3:07) It will. To make it even more fascinating, we had to bring in the reserves. We were at the Bible convention out in Johnstown.

I was having lunch with David. David Stein is with us this morning. Good morning, David.

DAVID: Good morning, Rick. Good morning, Jonathan. JONATHAN: Good morning.

RICK: Trish and I were having a meal with David and Kathy, and David just happened to say, so what's your subject this Sunday? He was going to be in town, so we said, come on down. Join us. JONATHAN: All right. RICK: David, you've been with us several times. DAVID: Yes. RICK: You are from where, and who are you?

Just a brief overview, and then let's get started.

[David] (3:08 - 3:09) I thought I was the reserves.

[Rick] (3:10 - 3:11) Well, you are.

[David] (3:11 - 3:29) That's for sure. No, my name's David Stein, and I'm an elder at Allentown Bible Students class, Allentown, Pennsylvania. We've been associated with the Bible student movement for quite some time and have had the privilege of coming up here on Christian Questions on multiple occasions.

It's a great privilege and always a delight to be here.

[Rick] (3:30 - 3:51) We are going to be talking with you this morning about Israel and about the fig tree and what it all means and several other aspects of this. But first, Jonathan, because we're going to be at the beginning of the program focusing on the fig tree as a symbol and what it means and why Jesus uses it, we've got a little trivia question.

[Jonathan] (3:51 - 3:57) That's right, Rick, and that question is, where was the first fig tree in Scripture located?

[Rick] (3:58 - 4:14) All right. We know the locality of the first fig tree in Scripture. The question is, do you folks, do you know where it was?

Let us know. If you think you know, 866-985-4255, toll free, 866-985-4ALL. We're live Sunday mornings from 7 to 9, and that means we're on right now.

[David] (4:15 - 4:32) Rick, I'm going to add to the trivia question. RICK: Okay, so it's a building trivia. DAVID: Building indeed, indeed.

What I'm going to add is to ask the question, what are the first three agricultural crops that are mentioned in the Bible? RICK: Okay. DAVID: It's going to be interesting because the answer to this is germane to the rest of our program.

[Rick] (4:33 - 5:07) All right. It's already very fascinating, and we haven't even started. Let's get going.

Let's look at the fig tree. Let's look at what Jesus says. Folks, we're going to really focus on Jesus' focus on Israel, what he meant by what he said, what is the role of Israel through God's plan and destiny.

Because we look at Israel now, look at all the trouble they're undergoing, and we want to use that sort of as a backdrop to say, well, let's revisit God's plans for Israel. Jonathan, let's get started. A simple parable as our basis for looking into Jesus' perspective;

this is from Luke 13:6-9:

[Jonathan] (5:08 - 5:39) "...A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard: and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard keeper, Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down!

Why does it even use up the ground? And he answered and said to him, Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine;

but if not, cut it down."

[Rick] (5:39 - 5:56) Alright, so Jesus tells this story. Let's kind of break it down. He began by telling this parable.

Verse 6 says, "...A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard." David, there're really two important symbols here that are part of this parable. What are they?

Let's start to develop this.

[David] (5:56 - 6:14) Well, the two symbols here, you have the vineyard where the fig tree is located and, of course, the fig tree. Both of these symbols are very strong in Scripture and particularly in Jesus' usage, as we will see. We think that they represent God's chosen ones, but from two standpoints; the spiritual aspect and the natural aspect.

[Rick] (6:14 - 6:22) Okay, so spiritual aspect, you're going to pin that on the vineyard, the vine. Jesus talks about the vine and the branches.

[David] (6:23 - 6:23) Exactly right.

[Rick] (6:23 - 6:27) The natural aspect, we're looking at the fig tree.

[David] (6:27 - 6:52) By the way, we're going to talk about it more, but those two aspects go all the way back to the Abrahamic covenant. Remember when God promised Abraham that in his seed all families of the earth would be blessed? RICK: Right, right.

DAVID: Then he described the seed in two parts, like the stars of the heaven and the sands of the seashore. There's the same theme all the way back in Genesis--the heavenly part, the spiritual part; and the natural part, the earthly part. Heavenly stars, earthly sand.

[Rick] (6:52 - 7:52) When we look at Jesus' understanding of and teaching on Israel, that's an important backdrop. Obviously Jesus was a Jew. Okay, so he understood the Abrahamic promise as being the foundational promise that brought forth Israel.

It was given to the grandfather of Israel. DAVID: Right. RICK: It's an important promise because it's repeated over and over and over again to each generation as things go.

All right. We've got these two important aspects in this little parable that Jesus is speaking. Again, the big question is, what is Jesus telling us about Israel?

Let's take a look at some scriptures that help us, going back to the Old Testament, and help us understand some of the symbolism that Jesus uses. Because another thing that's important here, David, is that Jesus--it's amazing to me when you begin to study the scriptures, how many things he said he really pulled right out of the Old Testament and just developed them.

[David] (7:52 - 8:23) That's an important thing to recognize, an important reason for us to be good students of the Bible. Jesus did get information that was supernaturally given to him, but by and large that's not the case. You can trace very many things that Jesus said going all the way back to the Old Testament.

Time doesn't permit us now, but when he was talking about Israel and their future and whatnot, he went back all the way to Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. When you start to look at key elements of what he said, you'll find those same elements back there.

[Rick] (8:23 - 8:36) You'll see a phrase that he mentions and you'll go back and you'll find it in the Old Testament and you'll say, oh, is that a coincidence? No. That is a well-studied mind drawing Old Testament prophecy into place and clarifying it for us.

[David] (8:36 - 8:36) Exactly.

[Rick] (8:37 - 8:39) All right. Jeremiah 8:1-2:

[Jonathan] (8:40 - 9:11) "At that time, declares the LORD, they will bring out the bones of the kings of Judah and the bones of its princes, and the bones of the priests and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem from their graves. They will spread them out to the sun, the moon, and to all the hosts of heaven, which they have loved and which they have served, and which they have gone after and which they have sought, and which they have worshipped. They will not be gathered or buried;

they will be as dung on the face of the ground."

[Rick] (9:11 - 9:16) All right. David, why are we talking about this scripture? What is there about this that gets us started?

[David] (9:17 - 10:17) Well, it illustrates a general principle that when you are in covenant relationship with God, if you obey that covenant, good things are going to happen. If you disobey that covenant, bad things are going to happen. Just by way of illustration, I had made mention very briefly of Deuteronomy 28.

In verse 5 of that chapter, it says if you hearken to the voice of God--and I'm paraphrasing--it says, blessed shall ye be in basket and store. RICK: Right. DAVID: Then in verse 17, it says, if not, cursed shall ye be in basket and store. The covenant that Israel had, the Law Covenant, was very much a covenant of prosperity.

That's how you knew God was blessing you. A little bit different when we took at the spiritual aspect; the blessings are a little bit different.

RICK: Oh, spiritual prosperity. DAVID: That's right, spiritual prosperity. But for natural Israel, it was physical prosperity.

RICK: Right. DAVID: The scripture we just read shows that they had gone over to worshipping the stars. It's idolatry, gross idolatry.

What was going to happen? They were going to be laid out.

[Rick] (10:18 - 10:26) The scripture really helps us to understand that even though you can have God's chosen ones, it doesn't mean it's a bed of roses.

[David] (10:27 - 10:41) Yeah. There's another scripture that's just come to mind now, and I don't have the text, but it says, you of all the people of the earth have I loved; therefore will I chastise you. RICK: Right. DAVID: You see the responsibility that comes about being in covenant relationship with God.

[Rick] (10:41 - 11:19) Yeah, I think it was in Amos 3:2 that the chosen ones, therefore--you're in trouble. DAVID: That's right. RICK: That's a real paraphrase, I'll tell you that.

All right, so the bottom line is being chosen, being favored, means being in the very clear attention of God, which means that there are consequences for missteps. Jeremiah 8:1-2, as we just read and you just explained, David, shows that there are sinful things, idolatrous things that had been done in Judah. What was the consequence?

Well, let's jump down to Jeremiah 8:12-13:

[Jonathan] (11:19 - 11:47) "Were they ashamed because of the abomination they had done? They certainly were not ashamed, and they did not know how to blush; therefore they shall fall among those who fall;

at the time of their punishment they shall be brought down, says the LORD. I will surely snatch them away, declares the LORD; there will be no grapes on the vine and no figs on the fig tree, and the leaf will wither; and what I have given them will pass away."

[Rick] (11:47 - 11:56) It's interesting because there is this sense of, first of all, they don't even know how to blush. What's that telling us?

[David] (11:56 - 12:21) You know, that little piece of Scripture there is important because we're not talking about mistakes. God is very forgiving, and sometimes we just end up doing things that we don't really want to do, and that's not what the behavior we're talking about here. We're talking about choices that are deliberately contrary to what God says, and an attitude where you don't even care about it.

They're not ashamed, know how to blush. The attitude was completely perverted.

[Rick] (12:21 - 12:56) The attitude was perverted, and then it says basically as a consequence--it's interesting--there're no grapes on the vine, and no figs on the fig tree. Those are two of the symbols we're really going to start working with is the fig tree, again as a representation of Israel because Jesus is really telling us that in that parable. Then you've got the grapevine which you mentioned, you've got the spiritual aspect of God's chosen and the physical aspect of God's chosen. It's interesting that Israel becomes idolatrous and both aspects of their lives then suffer dramatically.

[David] (12:56 - 13:11) Yes, and it's interesting--again, Jesus probably picks up on this very scripture, and we'll see as we get on in the program--he starts to talk about the vineyard and the grapes and he starts to talk about the fig tree. Both of these things come together in Jesus' mind as part of his lesson.

[Rick] (13:11 - 13:28) That's the thing, that's why he uses those symbols. Okay, so Dave, we've got just a minute or two left here in this first segment. Let's get into some of the properties of fig trees.

Just give us a sense of what is it about fig trees that is so important.

[David] (13:28 - 13:43) Well, the fig tree is a very unusual tree in that the first ripe figs, one of the three crops that it gives every year, appear before the leaves. Now, how many fruit trees have you seen that have fruit on before there's any leaves? Yeah, so that's an interesting thing.

[Rick] (13:43 - 13:45) That doesn't normally happen.

[David] (13:45 - 13:53) No, no, it's very unusual, and significant, we might add. I mentioned it has three crops. If we start in the spring, which I don't usually want to start with...

[Rick] (13:53 - 14:15) Okay, well, before you get into the three crops let's just back up a little bit here, because we're not going to have time to get through all of that right now. But the point is that there are things about the way a fig tree is naturally that God uses to show us what's happening in His plan. He uses natural things all the time.

[Jonathan] (14:15 - 15:15) This is Christian Questions. I'm Jonathan here with Rick, with our special guest David Stein. Our question is: "What Did Jesus Say About Israel?"

Coming up, did you know that figs are harvested three different times a year? Are there symbolic lessons we can learn about these three harvests? This is good.

That's next. ANNOUNCER: You're listening to Christian Questions. JONATHAN: Welcome back.

This is Christian Questions. I'm Jonathan here with Rick, with our special guest David Stein. Our subject this morning: "What did Jesus say about Israel?"

To be a part of our program, call toll-free 866-4255. That's 866-985-4ALL. We're live Sunday mornings from 7 to 9.

That means we're on right now. Our website: ChristianQuestions.com.

[Rick] (15:15 - 15:19) Folks, don't forget that if you have a smartphone, we have an app.

[Jonathan] (15:19 - 15:20) That's right, we do.

[Rick] (15:20 - 16:10) Go to your app store, type in Christian Questions, download the free Christian Questions app. It opens up so much in terms of possibilities for our program here. All right, so let's continue with our discussion here.

We looked at the parable in the first segment. Jesus speaks this parable and he talks about cutting down a fig tree, okay? He's saying it hasn't been bringing forth fruit for a while. Let's get back and let's establish Israel.

We all understand Israel is represented by this fig tree. I mean, everybody who reads this understands that this is what's being spoken of. Let's look at the basis, though, of the blessing that Israel was given. We had touched on this earlier, David, but Jonathan, let's go and read Genesis 12:1-3.

This is the promise given to Abram that is the source of all of the blessing.

[Jonathan] (16:10 - 16:37) "Now the LORD said to Abram, go forth from your country, and from your relatives and from your father's house, to the land which I will show you; And I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great; and so you shall be a blessing; and I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

[Rick] (16:37 - 17:08) This is the original stating of that promise. Now the interesting thing is that promise develops, and later on as God states that promise, it gets more and more detailed. It says here all the families in the earth will be blessed in you, but it doesn't talk about your seed being as the sand of the seashore and the stars of heaven.

God develops this promise, but basically it's a promise to Abram, says leave your home, go where I will show you, and this is what's going to happen. David, how does that translate to Israel?

[David] (17:09 - 17:34) Israel is the offspring of Abraham, and Israel now has a special place in God's plan because of the fact that God promised something to Abraham. We'll see that a little bit more later in the program when we take a good look at Romans 11, but it's important to remember that the seed of Abraham is being blessed not because they're great or wonderful or different than anybody else, but because of God's promise.

[Rick] (17:34 - 17:47) Alright, so you've got God's promise. Now let's hold onto that really tightly here for this next moment because now, Jonathan, read the next part of our parable. Luke 13, the last half of verse 6-7.

[Jonathan] (17:47 - 18:01) "...and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard keeper, Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down!

Why does it even use up the ground?"

[Rick] (18:02 - 18:13) We're talking about Israel being a source of God's blessing to all the families of the earth, and yet in the parable he's talking about cutting down the tree. That sounds pretty permanent to me.

[David] (18:14 - 18:31) Pretty permanent? Well, in a sense it is. The way that God deals with people on earth is through families, through promises, what we believe is dispensational truth which means that God is doing a certain thing during a period of time and doing something different during another period of time.

[Rick] (18:31 - 18:42) Okay, wait, wait, let's pause and develop that thought because that might be very, very new to a lot of people listening. What you're saying is, God's methods are changing as time goes on?

[David] (18:43 - 18:53) Well, God never changes, but this is a plan that He came up with a long time ago. Remember in the last segment we talked about the spiritual aspects of the covenant and the natural aspects of the covenant. RICK: Right.

[Rick] (18:53 - 18:59) Natural aspects pictured by fig trees, spiritual pictured by grapevine.

[David] (18:59 - 20:02) Exactly right. That applies to the time dispensations we're talking about as well. The Jewish Age was a period of about 1,845 years that ended in the time of Jesus.

During that time, the scripture says that Israel, you are my special possession, my prized people on earth. It was because not only of the Abrahamic covenant but the later covenant, the Law Covenant, that kind of organized them around this special Mosaic Law that they had. But they had repeatedly proven unfaithful to it.

This wasn't the first time that even in the time of Jesus that Israel had problems. They were harried by the Canaanites and others in the land where they lived, the Philistines for example. Every time they were harried, it was a result of being unfaithful to the Covenant.

Then eventually King Nebuchadnezzar came against Jerusalem, destroyed the city in 607 B.C. and took the people away. In fact, there's a scripture coming up here in just a few moments that we're going to illustrate those that were preserved through that first destruction and those that weren't.

[Rick] (20:02 - 20:12) Okay, so it's important to realize that God does change His methods as time goes on because different periods of time warrant different approaches to accomplish the overall plan.

[David] (20:12 - 20:28) Exactly right. That fig tree we associate with the Jewish Age, now Jesus was introducing something new. He was introducing the spiritual aspects, and so now we come into the vineyard phase and that begins the Gospel Age, which is very distinct in the way that God deals with His people from the Jewish age.

[Rick] (20:28 - 21:11) Right, and that shows you the dispensational change, because there's a different method to accomplish the same plan. It's like you're playing the football game and in the first quarter you're going to play a different strategy than you are in the fourth quarter. DAVID: That's right.

RICK: It's the same game. You've got to win the game and your strategy changes depending on where you are in the game. Okay, let's continue.

Let's get into a little bit more of the Old Testament references. Folks, if you have a thought, we're talking about the fig tree as a representation of Israel. What does it mean, this fig tree getting cut down? Does it mean Israel is destroyed and loses their favor?

We'd love to hear your thoughts. 866-985-4255, toll-free, 866-985-4ALL. We're live Sunday mornings from 7 to 9 and that means we're on right now.

[Jonathan] (21:11 - 21:18) We want to hear what you have to say about today's topic. Post your comments on our Facebook page. Go to our blog.

Go to christianquestions.com.

[Rick] (21:18 - 21:34) Let's go back to the Old Testament and look at a little bit more of the establishment of Israel in the pictures that we're talking about. An Old Testament reference here to the ever-present challenge of idolatry that we've already seen in Jeremiah they had trouble with; Hosea 9:10:

[Jonathan] (21:35 - 21:54) "Like grapes in the wilderness, I found Israel. Like the first fruit on the fig tree, in its first season, I saw your ancestors. But they came to Baal-peor, and consecrated themselves to a thing of shame, and became detestable like the thing they loved."

[Rick] (21:54 - 22:15) David, here it's really giving us a sense of--it gives you the grapes and it gives you the figs, both under the umbrella of the picture of Israel, but it says that they were sinful, they were idolatrous. The grapes, the spiritual blessing part of Israel, and the figs, the natural national blessing part of Israel, all came into jeopardy.

[David] (22:16 - 23:01) That's correct. I want to add another scripture that illustrates this a little bit more. It's in Jeremiah 24.

Now, I recommend that your listeners read all of the verses. There're ten verses there. But what it is, it's a picture of good figs, and King James says naughty figs.

In other words, good and bad figs. This was with reference to the time when God used Nebuchadnezzar to punish Israel and to take people away. He says the good figs are those that He preserved into Babylon.

In other words, He's still protecting His people even though there's a punishment going on, and the bad figs are those that are destroyed. Point being, this scripture and the one that Jonathan just read in Hosea 9 show that we have a biblical basis for assigning the fig tree to Israel.

[Rick] (23:01 - 23:37) Okay, and that's the important thing. It gives us the clear link that says Israel and the fig tree do absolutely belong together before Jesus uses it as a picture. DAVID: Yes.

RICK: Again, why do you think Jesus used it as a picture? DAVID: That's right. RICK: Because scriptural precedence showed him, teach this way.

I think that's a marvelous thing about the connection between the Old and the New Testaments. Let's talk about the idea that there were three crops of figs. You started saying that at the end of the last segment and I stopped you.

Talk about the first crop of figs, the winter figs. What happens with those winter figs?

[David] (23:37 - 24:04) Well, a winter fig is a fig that the fig tree produces near the end of its growing season. It's sort of like a sputtering crop. It was not harvested.

Winter figs weren't cultivated and harvested. Mostly they were left on the trees. Not a particularly high-quality fig, although I read in one book on Bible plants that sometimes you could coax a winter fig all the way to the spring and it would get better. But it was a crop that was generally rejected and not used.

[Rick] (24:04 - 24:20) Interesting. A crop that was generally rejected and not used. So you have three phases of harvest with the fig tree.

If Israel represents the fig tree, then logic would say that the three phases of harvest somehow fit together.

[David] (24:23 - 24:43) The wonderful thing about this fact, just as you stated it, is that God had to create the fig tree. He had to create the DNA and the genetics to have these characteristics and features, and He did this however long ago that creation occurred with in mind the history of Israel already having.

What power, what wisdom and foreknowledge!

[Rick] (24:43 - 25:23) You talk about foresight in a whole different kind of level. JONATHAN: We still have a trivia question out there, don't we, Rick? RICK: Yeah, and that question is, where was the first fig tree in scripture located?

Where was it? It's a fascinating answer, I might add. So, if you think you might know, let us know at 866-985-4255.

So, John the Baptist, we see the fig tree connection to Israel unequivocally. John the Baptist was preaching to the fig tree. He's preaching "repent."

We see why he's preaching repent, because through much of the history of Israel, they were way off course. Let's just take a look at John the Baptist preaching, Matthew 3:1-2:

[Jonathan] (25:24 - 25:31) "Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

[Rick] (25:31 - 25:37) Okay. So David, it's a simple, straightforward message of repent; get ready, because Jesus is coming.

[David] (25:37 - 26:01) It was a time for them to have a reckoning with God. We know now, looking back, that this was coming to the end of the Jewish age. They had had their run.

Not that God was going to reject them forever, for all time, but a rejection was coming up. The preaching of John the Baptist was perhaps one last time to say, folks, wake up, there's going to be something momentous happening. Of course, he's introducing Jesus coming on the scene.

[Rick] (26:02 - 26:14) All right. Now, but John goes further, and this is interesting based on the parable that Jesus taught about cutting this fig tree down. Jonathan, let's keep reading.

Go a little bit further, in Matthew 3:7-10:

[Jonathan] (26:14 - 26:48) "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, you brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, we have Abraham for our father; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

The ax is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

[Rick] (26:48 - 26:51) That sounds very similar to what Jesus said in the parable. Go ahead.

[David] (26:52 - 27:12) Indeed. And I think it reflects that same attitude problem that we made mention of last time.

Abraham's our father, so we're going to be fine. The Israelites were saying the same thing back before Nebuchadnezzar had. Oh, we're in covenant relationship with God.

We have the Temple. Nothing can happen to us. But not so.

There still is going to be responsibility for what you do.

[Rick] (27:12 - 27:33) The interesting thing is--just to diverge for a second, the fig tree we see is a picture of Israel and the vine and the branches, spiritual Israel, if you will, the called out true church-- we can also run into exactly the same problem by saying, well, I've given my life over to Jesus, so everything's fine. I'm in great shape.

I'm impervious.

[David] (27:34 - 27:45) Yeah. Personal responsibility means that we have to obey God and his commandments. John somewhere says this is what the love of God means, that we obey His commandments.

We will be just as culpable to God's punishment if we do not.

[Rick] (27:45 - 28:03) So we have to--just as Israel had to--be very aware of what we do, what we say, and what we think. Just because we have promised our lives to God through Christ, and this might sound harsh, but it doesn't mean a hill of beans if you don't live it.

[David] (28:04 - 28:46) That's right. RICK:Go ahead. DAVID: If I can make one more connection here, "the axe is already laid at the root of the trees."

We mentioned God's punishment back when Nebuchadnezzar came. The other punishment coming up here, and we're going to explore it some more in the upcoming segments, is the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. In another place where Jesus is talking about this in Matthew 24, he says something specific that I want to connect back up with the fig tree.

In Matthew 24:20 he says, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter..." RICK: Interesting, because the winter figs didn't produce. DAVID: That's right, that's right.

So we have a connection here with that crop that was rejected. Israel was rejected. They weren't producing the fruits befitting them.

[Rick] (28:46 - 28:53) Are you saying then that the winter crop is representative of Israel at the time of Jesus?

[David] (28:53 - 29:04) Yeah, they were a nation that wasn't ready. A nation that had professions but not realities. Because of all of the corruption that existed there, they were cut off.

They were not harvested.

[Rick] (29:04 - 29:38) Now that's an interesting point. That's an interesting development here to put into the mix. What we have is a picture of Israel at the time of Jesus, not ready; but they should have been ready because all of the pieces were put in place.

John the Baptist comes and says, it's time. They're just not ready to actually follow through. Winter crops shows the time of Jesus and Israel's rejection of him.

[Jonathan] (29:38 - 30:39) This is Christian Questions. I'm Jonathan here with Rick, with our special guest David Stein and our subject: "What Did Jesus Say About Israel?" Coming up; many Christians believe that Israel is completely cast off. Others, that they are lost forever. Some, that only a certain number survive. Which is it? That's next.

To be a part of our program, call toll-free 866-985-4255, that's 866-985-4ALL. We're live Sunday mornings from 7 to 9, and that means we're on right now. Our web site: ChristianQuestions.com.

[Rick] (30:40 - 31:12) We're looking at Israel, understanding that Israel unequivocally is symbolized by a fig tree in Scripture. We have Old Testament Scriptures; we have Jesus talking about it; we have this parable he's speaking that says the tree has been around for three years and it hasn't produced any fruit. It's wasting dirt at this point it's wasting precious soil--cut it down. The owner is told, well, wait another year. Wait just a little bit longer to see if there's any fruit that comes from it. It really shows us the three and a half years of Jesus' ministry. DAVID: Indeed. RICK: Jonathan, let's get back to that parable. Luke 13:8-9:

[Jonathan] (31:12 - 31:22) "And he answered and said to him, let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down."

[Rick] (31:22 - 32:00) "...if not, cut it down." That sounds pretty dramatic, and you wonder, you look at that Scripture and you look at the idea of taking Israel off the scene and say well, is that going to be a permanent severing a favor for them? Because a lot of different Christians have a lot of different views on this. To make matters even worse, that's just a parable.

That's a story. Let's go to the cursing of the fig tree in Mark 11:12-14 because this isn't a story. This is something Jesus actually does. This is a strange miracle is what it is, because he actually withers a tree. Why would you do that? Let's take a look.

[Jonathan] (32:01 - 32:22) "On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see whether perhaps he would find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. He said to it, may no one ever eat fruit from you again. And his disciples heard it."

[Rick] (32:22 - 33:13) First thing, David, you'd mentioned that the winter figs were the ones that were not good. It's interesting because it was kind of an out-of-season production, and here it says it wasn't the season for figs. It just kind of gives you a sense that it's showing that they just weren't ready They just weren't ready to produce something of value. But it says he's saying he withers the tree, and he's saying may no one eat from you again. If we believe that Israel is has not been cast off from favor eternally from God-- and that's what we believe; we believe Israel still is in fact favorite in spite of all of the mess that they're in right here, right now, dealing with Gaza and the attacks and the tunnels and the missiles and all of those things--how do you put that in perspective to what Jesus said? "May no one ever eat fruit from you again?"

[David] (33:14 - 35:03) Well, this translation lacks a little bit. If you look in the Greek--and for the Greek scholars out there the expression there "ever again" is really (Greek phrase). RICK: Bless you. DAVID: Well, we assume that you have a pretty sophisticated audience. RICK: They're smarter than me. DAVID: But really what it means literally is that nobody will eat this fruit "to the age," is what Jesus said. Not forever, but "to the age." We think that that's exactly the right thing to understand it because until the Millennial Age--and we're going to talk a lot more about these, Israel's coming back into favor again-- they would be rejected. The cutting down of the tree shows that abandonment of their national house because of disregard, but not forever. The picture here of cutting down more emphasizes the destruction that will come, and that would be in 70 AD, as opposed to the permanence of it. Now there's one other thing in this is as well. When Jonathan was reading, he said "Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf..." Remember what we said about the leaves earlier, that if there're leaves on a fig tree you expect to find that second crop now, called the early ripe figs or the first ripe figs, because the figs are produced before the leaves. Jesus, looking in the distance, sees this fig tree in leaf. His expectation is that there will be figs on it now. It says out of season The first ripe figs, that's a little early. RICK: Right. DAVID: Right about that time you have barley coming in, then you have wheat, then you have the first ripe figs. It would have been a little early--that's another meaning of the out of season here. But notice, though, that it says "in leaf." It gives us that detail because it helps us to understand this. As you said, the cursing of the tree is a completely strange thing for Jesus to do unless you understand the symbolism involved.

[Rick] (35:03 - 35:13) It's a serious consequence of the rejection of Messiah at that point in time. DAVID: Yeah. RICK: That's really what Jesus points to. As a matter of fact, right after that Jesus goes and he cleanses the temple, okay?

[David] (35:13 - 35:58) Yes. If I can just add one more thing about the judgment coming on the Jews at that time. Certainly they rejected--at least the leaders, the spiritual and religious and radical leaders--rejected. People seemed to love Jesus. They were very supportive of him. But those that were in control didn't and they really called the shots, so the judgment was coming upon them in particular. But it wasn't only for that rejection of Jesus. Again, in another place in Matthew 23 --we may get to it--Jesus says you folks have a history of this. RICK: Yes. DAVID: You have been killing my prophets and rejecting God's message from Abel to Zechariah. He says, so all of these things now are going to be summed and the judgment's going to come upon you on this generation.

[Rick] (35:58 - 36:12) So it all sums up and all comes to fruition there. Before we go to the phones, Jonathan, I just want to finish this Mark 11 context. In between what we read about withering the fig tree, Jesus cleanses the Temple, and then Mark 11:20-24 is what happens afterwards.

[Jonathan] (36:12 - 36:42) "In the morning as they passed by, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots. Then Peter remembered and said to him, Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered. Jesus answered them, have faith in God. Truly I tell you, if you say to this mountain, be taken up and thrown into the sea, and if you do not doubt in your heart, but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you. So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours"

[Rick] (36:42 - 36:52) All right. David, you talked a little bit about the translation in the first part of Mark 11. But here it says it's withered away to its roots.

Is this is this a permanent destruction, in spite of what you said?

[David] (36:52 - 37:50) It's not going to be a permanent condition for the fleshly seed of Abraham, the natural seed of Abraham. But it does express just how thorough the judgment is going to be on them. They were dried up. They had completely lost spirituality, and we don't have to go into all the things that the scribes and Pharisees told Jesus, but they were lacking in this big time. It's interesting that in between the cursing of the fig tree and the noticing of the effect of that, the drying up, you have the cleansing of the Temple. I think these things are related. Jesus cleansed the Temple. He showed all of the bad things that are going on there and then in what Jonathan just read, he says if you say to this mountain--well, what mountain? Well, the Temple was on Moriah. He says it'll be thrown into the sea.

What happened to the Temple on Mount Moriah? RICK: Thrown down, yeah. DAVID: It was thrown down. Nothing--there wasn't even one rock and one stone upon another by the Romans, the Romans sea of oppression and whatnot. They completely wiped out everything that was related to that.

[Rick] (37:50 - 38:45) Just before we go to the phone, just one other point here. I think that's critically important that we're going to develop the idea that you said, it's a very thorough rejection. Just as thorough as the acceptance of Israel was over a period of 1,845 years, the rejection would be essentially the same amount of time. That's how thorough. That's why he says it's withered, because you had Israel as God's chosen people for 1,845 years and now he's saying there would be a double, meaning the same period of disfavor. That's why Jesus uses such strong language. He's saying you are going to have massive trouble as long into the future as you've had massive favor, as long into the past.

[David] (38:45 - 39:00) Exactly right. Remember, Jesus did this judgment message in 33 AD. RICK: Rght. DAVID: That's at the end of that first period of 1,845 years. We'll see where the matching period ends up and it will give us more evidence that in fact favor will eventually return. RICK: And favor has been in fact returning. Jonathan, let's go to the phone.

[Jonathan] (39:01 - 39:08) All right. Well, we have Julius from Connecticut. Good morning Julius, and welcome to Christian questions. JULIUS: Gentlemen, good morning. Thanks.

Letting me get a word in here?

[Rick] (39:09 - 39:09) Yeah, sorry.

[Jonathan] (39:10 - 39:25) JULIUS: I always appreciate David Stein's contribution. He's such a scholar. I really learned a lot from him, God bless. RICK: Yeah, me too.

JULIUS: Yeah, now remember last week You were assigned Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego?

[Rick] (39:25 - 39:25) Yeah.

[Jonathan] (39:26 - 39:31) Well this week I change it to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah.

[Rick] (39:31 - 39:33) You use the Jewish names, good.

[Jonathan] (39:33 - 40:38) JULIUS: Thank you, because it's a Jewish question. Yeah, well the question "What did Jesus say about Israel?"--well, what could he say? The model that he glorified his Father every occasion, he always enhanced the father's Glory and knowledge and so forth. His affection for the Father was just incredible. Like Father, like son. Zechariah 2:8 says, "...he who touches you, touches the apple of His eye."

God's affection, Jehovah's affection for Israel, the Lord Jesus naturally would follow suit. Just one scripture along that line and that's in Matthew 15:21-28, where the woman wanted favors from the Lord Jesus. She even would take the crumbs off the table.

[Rick] (40:39 - 40:39) Yes.

[Jonathan] (40:39 - 41:31) JULIUS: Remember that? RICK: Yes. JULIUS: Before that He said, I am not come but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He loved his people. The leaders he had an issue with, the Pharisees. There was a different matter, but he loved his people just as Jehovah does and will always. Okay, on the trivia. RICK: We're ready. JULIUS: You really challenge. The tree,

from my research here, is Genesis 3:7. The first tree is mentioned in the Garden, the Tree of Life. The second tree is the Tree of Knowledge. The third tree is connected to the fig leaves in Genesis 3.

[Rick] (41:31 - 41:35) Got it, Julius! You're good! All right Julius, we've got to move on here. Thanks for the call. We appreciate it.

[Jonathan] (41:35 - 41:36) JULIUS: God bless. JONATHAN: Take care. JULIUS: Thank you. Bye.

[Rick] (41:36 - 42:13) He got it, that's good, that's good. It's interesting that it was a fig tree obviously, in the Garden of Eden, because they used fig leaves as coverings. It's kind of interesting. Again, Julius, thanks for your thoughts and the scriptures and so forth. That scripture in Matthew about the woman eating the crumbs from the table was from Matthew 15. We had it in our outline, couldn't cover it because we're running out of time. We're almost out of time for this segment.

Jonathan, let's just go to Matthew 23:37-38. This is Jesus talking about Israel and Israel's destiny, at least for the next long period of time.

[Jonathan] (42:13 - 42:27) "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! See, your house is left unto you, desolate."

[Rick] (42:27 - 42:57) David, as we've seen this fig tree--and Jesus doesn't talk about Israel in terms of the fig tree a lot, but what he says is incredibly powerful. He's telling us prophetically that you're coming to a tipping point where favor has gone on in spite of your own lack of devotion to God Almighty, and now you're at a point where now I am here (Jesus), and you are rejecting me. Now there is going to be, as a result, a period of disfavor and it's going to be a long period of time. Your house is left desolate. That's pretty dramatic.

[David] (42:58 - 43:32) That is, and it shows that the covenant arrangement that God had made with Israel--specifically we're talking about the Mosaic Law Covenant now-- was going to be suspended as far as God is concerned. Your house being left to you desolate, saying I'm not dealing with you anymore. RICK: But wait, is that anymore forever? DAVID: Well, verse 39 in that same text (Matthew 23:39) gives us the answer. Jesus says, "For I say unto you, ye shall not see me henceforth till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." RICK: So there's hope later. DAVID: There is.

[Rick] (43:32 - 44:05) There's a lot of hope later. It's interesting because now in the age of Christianity in which we live, you have--and we won't read it because we don't have a lot of time here-- but 1 Peter 2:7-10 talks about those who rejected Jesus, and then those of us who are able to accept and there's a new favor there. It's like there's a new kid in town. There's this new favor given to the true followers of Christ and that is shown to us in the picture of the vine and the branches. Again, you have both of those things interestingly in the Old Testament shown under the umbrella of Israel. That's right.

[David] (44:05 - 44:16) That's right. Even when we look at the history there in the first century, that fleshly seed of Abraham had an exclusive invitation for some three and a half years after Jesus died to come into the vineyard arrangement.

[Rick] (44:16 - 45:16) Right, and the first Gentile convert, Cornelius, was the first evidence that something had changed dramatically. DAVID: Yes, exactly. RICK: It required a vision from heaven for the Apostle Peter to be able to understand that. Folks, we see that Jesus in talking about Israel as pictured in the fig tree tells us a lot in a few words; tells us that they are in trouble, tells us that they're going to be rejecting God and His plan because they rejected him. But that's not the end of the story, and Jesus tells us that as well.

Coming up in the second hour, what does Jesus mean by that? What do the Apostles pick up and say about the role that Israel will and does play as blessed of God to bless the nations of the earth? For Jonathan and Rick and Christian Questions, we'll be back after the news and all that but till then the question: "What Did Jesus Say About Israel?" We'll be back soon Think about it

[David] (45:38 - 45:41) ANNOUNCER: This is Christian Questions.

[Rick] (45:45 - 46:22) Dennis Waitley once said, "Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat. It's a temporary detour, not a dead end. Failure is something we can avoid only by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing. Good morning everyone, and welcome back to Christian Questions talk radio with your breakfast with Jonathan and Rick. This isn't your typical Christian commentary. We love talking with our audience and we promise to never talk at you like so many talk shows do today. This is a conversation about biblical topics as we look at them from a different perspective. Jonathan, what is the subject on the table?

[Jonathan] (46:22 - 46:44) Well Rick, our question is: "What Did Jesus Say About Israel?" RICK: Plenty. JONATHAN: Specifically, we're going to focus on the theme text Luke 13:6: "And he began telling this parable: a man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard, and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any." We have with us our special guest, David Stein.

[Rick] (46:44 - 47:09) Good morning again, David. DAVID: Good morning. Thank you for being with us today. This is very important and very fascinating subject because whenever you look at Scripture and you look at the symbols used in Scripture, if you really dig into it, you really find a whole lot more than just an arbitrary picking of this symbol or that symbol. David, just sort of sum up for us some of the things we talked about in the first hour in terms of the symbology in Israel and where Israel stood in Jesus' time and so forth.

[David] (47:09 - 47:52) Well, we looked at some of the symbols that Jesus used specifically, the vineyard and the fig tree, and we've kind of focused on the fig tree in the first hour. The fig tree is a unique tree. It has very unusual features, not the least of which is it produces fruit before leaves. Helps us to understand what Jesus did in that one very odd occasion in Scripture where he curses a tree. RICK: Right. It withers.

Yeah, you would not something you expect Jesus would do, but it's just rife with symbolism which is what we're supposed to see in it. We also noted that the fig tree has three crops each year. We've talked a little bit about the winter figs. We're going to talk a little bit more about the second crop, the first ripe figs that come in in the late spring, and the last crop we're going to save to the end, which is the big crop.

[Rick] (47:52 - 48:21) Okay, so we have that fig tree obviously representing Israel because the Old Testament told us it did. We talked about in the first hour, the idea of the fig tree being God's natural blessing, if you will, and the vineyard in the vine and the branches, if you will, God's spiritual blessing both applying in this time. Jonathan, we've got these two pieces of symbolism and we're going to add a third as we go into the second hour. Just put them all together for us here.

[Jonathan] (48:21 - 48:35) Well first, the fig tree equals physical nation developing; the vine and branches equal spiritual nation developing; and the olive tree equals the combined family of God's chosen ones as blessers.

[Rick] (48:35 - 48:48) In the Old Testament we have these three things come up, but we're putting them to symbolism and seeing how they all fit. DAVID: Remember we opened our program with our trivia question RICK: Right. DAVID: And I had a follow-up question. RICK: Right.

[David] (48:48 - 49:29) This is a great point to make the point or great part of our discussion to make the point. The question that I asked is, what were the first three cultivatable crops? We said that they were the fig tree-- we knew that that's the answer to the question-- but the olive leaf and the vineyard and here you have all three of these together and seeing how each of them play a part in God's plan; the fig tree representing the natural part the natural interest on the earth that God has and His promises; the vineyard representing the spiritual part that we're going to explore now a little bit more, that which Jesus called and opened it up to the Gentiles; and finally the olive tree, which kind of brings all of these things together, having its root in the Abrahamic Covenant.

[Rick] (49:30 - 49:57) All right, so it's kind of an interesting thing. You've got these three pieces of agriculture from Israel that have such deep symbolism for us here now. Let's get into the vine and the branches. Jesus proclaims a new way, and really the question ends up being, where does this leave Israel now? Let's go through some of these things, David, then I'm going to ask you a very pointed question about all this. John 15:1-11:

[Jonathan] (49:57 - 50:13) I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, he prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word, which I have spoken to you."

[Rick] (50:13 - 50:31) All right. This is a similar pattern to that which natural Israel was developing under because remember, they were they were attached to God. They were God's favorite, if you will. What are the differences or similarities here between natural Israel and what we would call spiritual Israel?

[David] (50:32 - 51:26) Spiritual Israel is in fact reflected in natural Israel. Much of the history of natural Israel is reflected in the spiritual of Israel--that is to say, the Jewish Age is a reflection or at least a foreknowledge of the Gospel Age. But Jesus here in introducing himself as the vines.

"I am the true vine"--now he's saying that my teachings now are going to take all of what you've learned to a different level. Now we know that God doesn't change, so all of the principles and covenants and laws that God gave Israel are now going to be lifted up. We saw Jesus did this when he was talking about various parts of the Law. He says well, you heard about marriage. Well, I'm going to tell you something else; you heard about hatred and loving. I'm going to tell you something else. He's lifting up what they already knew to a new level and really investing it with a spirituality that the Israelites didn't quite see.

[Rick] (51:26 - 51:31) There is a new focus then. There's an entirely new focus, a higher focus based on the teaching in the life of Jesus.

[David] (51:31 - 52:09) Yes, and the focus now, we said it earlier, is spiritually. We contrasted spiritual prosperity versus natural prosperity and this is where Jesus is going. Jesus never promised any of his followers that if you obey me, your crops are going to grow great and you'll never have a rainstorm or a hailstorm. Those kind of promises were given to Israel but not to Christians. But what he does promise, he says I'm going to be with you always. I'm going to help you develop the fruits of the Spirit.

Here's another fruitage that we're talking about; spiritual fruitage or fruitage of character. I'm going to make you like me and I'm going to invite you to something that I never invited Israel to--a heavenly reward.

[Rick] (52:10 - 52:23) All right. Let's just read the next few verses here and then we've got to get to some pointed differences. John 15:4-6, Jonathan:

[Jonathan] (52:23 - 52:42) "Abide in me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned."

[Rick] (52:42 - 52:59) There's again a similarity to what was happening with Israel, remember, of the cutting down of the tree, John the Baptist saying that the axe is laid to the roots already and so forth. This certainly sounds like the favor of Israel has been replaced with the favor of Christianity.

[David] (53:00 - 54:17) This is a tremendous and terrible judgment message on Israel. Jesus is saying God is removing His favor from you. You used to be His prized possession.

RICK: So have we replaced Israel? DAVID: Well, replacement is a interesting word here. What has happened is that God, from the very beginning, knew that there would be something higher, more noble-- higher aspirations and higher requirements that he would have--namely, a membership in the body of Christ. Israel was intended to be that tutor, that progression all the way up, so that when Jesus came on the scene Israel should have been ready to embrace him and say, alright! We're ready to take the next step into these higher and deeper lessons. But they weren't ready, and so as a consequence they were cast off as a nation. The national covenant no longer applied to them. Then he began to bring in the Gentiles, as we said, but was it a replacement in one sense? Yes--but in a more important sense, no--because Israel, although they've been cast off, it's not forever. We'll see scriptures in in Romans 11 where Paul discusses is in the whole chapter very, very specifically. It is just a set-aside type of arrangement during the eighteen hundred and forty-five years of the Gospel age that we'll talk about a little bit more.

[Rick] (54:17 - 54:51) All right, so you're saying that no, Christianity has not replaced Israel. The interesting thing is, Israel in the Old Testament was symbolized by the fig tree and the vineyard. If you remember, both of those things applied to Israel. In the New Testament you have the shift of the vineyard, but you have no mention of the fig tree in relation to Christianity. DAVID: That's right. RICK: It gives you a sense that okay, there's an additional thing going on here but Israel as the fig tree is still somehow or other intact. Now it may be withered, but that symbolism is still there.

[David] (54:51 - 55:41) Yes. Replacement theology likes to just take Israel completely out of the picture. RICK: Right. DAVID: But there's a fundamental thing--we'll look at scriptures a little bit later, but just think of it this way; if you were Abraham and God says I am going to bless your seed, what are you thinking?

Well, it's his natural seed. RICK: Right, right. DAVID: He can't think of anything else. God promised me that, this is what I expect. Now as it turns out, God had a lot more in mind that Abraham had no consciousness of, no knowledge of, so God is going to replace or going to add to his promise far, far more. This is like the baker's dozen in hyperdrive! But if Israel was cast off forever, what would Abraham think? Well, gosh, God promised me this and it's not really coming about. So God's faithfulness is on the line here.

[Rick] (55:42 - 56:30) God is always faithful to His word and that that is an important part. Folks, what we're saying is--and incidentally folks, if you have a thought, it's 866-985-4255, toll-free 866-985-4ALL. We are live Sunday morning from 7 to 9 and that means are right now. JONATHAN: Go to our website ChristianQuestions.com and sign up for the Rewind, the full edition. RICK: You're saying, David, that Israel's not been replaced--and I absolutely do agree with you-- but that there is an additional spirituality part of the covenant now being focused with Christianity. Israel, remember, was given exclusive rights to that early on, so the spirituality could have come entirely through Israel had they not rejected Jesus.

[David] (56:30 - 56:43) In fact, a large number of Israelites or Jews at that time did in fact take advantage of that. RICK: Yes. DAVID: But Israel did not do so nationally and because they did not do so nationally, they were set aside.

[Rick] (56:43 - 57:00) Yeah, and that's an important point to remember. Up to three and a half years after the crucifixion and ascension of Jesus, all of Christianity was of Jewish descent. All of it. So you have that sense that that's where it was designed to be able to come from but then something bigger was going to happen.

[Jonathan] (57:00 - 57:10) Another point was the conversion to Christianity was not national. It was individual right also.

[Rick] (57:10 - 57:33) RIght. You can see how the withering of the fig tree was the withering of the national favor, but the individual still could answer the call, so to speak. That's an important point. When we compare the two you've got the Old Testament, you've got Moses. He's the mediator of the Law for Israel. The mediator of grace for the world is Jesus. Let's look at Romans 3:19-21:

[Jonathan] (57:33 - 57:58) Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets."

[Rick] (57:58 - 58:07) David, there're two things in the Scripture. It first of all, it seems like it focuses on wow, the Law is really important. But then it says, but there's something beyond the Law. How do you put those two things together?

[David] (58:07 - 58:43) I'm going to answer your question, but I want to footnote something neat. RICK: Okay. DAVID: It says by the works of the Law is no flesh justified. RICK: Right, right. DAVID: When Adam and Eve sinned they became aware of their sin, and they tried to justify themselves. What did they do? RICK: They put fig leaves on. DAVID: That's right. That's right, and do you see the connection here now with fig trees in Israel even in terms of the Law? Israel thought that they could be justified by obeying God's Law, just like Adam and Eve put the fig leaves on. The connection is really wonderful here. But they weren't able to. They needed something else, because the problem was not the Law; the problem was their innate human imperfection.

[Rick] (58:43 - 59:17) There're two aspects to this. You talked about God's dispensational approach to things. The Law is there to define sin, but then grace is there to show us how to be lifted far above sin and follow something even much higher. DAVID: Exactly right. I'm going to take your audience to Galatians 4. RICK: You're going to wait to do that, because we are about out of time for this segment. Don't forget that scripture, but folks, this is a very important aspect to understanding where Israel and Christianity fit together in the plan of God.

[Jonathan] (59:17 - 1:00:13) This is Christian Questions. I'm Jonathan here with Rick and our special guest David Stein. and our subject is, "What Did Jesus Say About Israel?" Coming up, so we've talked about fig trees and grapevines. What about olive trees?

What do they represent in God's plan? That's next. ANNOUNCER: You're listening to Christian Questions. JONATHAN: Welcome back. This is Christian Questions. I'm Jonathan here with Rick and our special guest, David Stein. Our subject is, "What Did Jesus Say About Israel? To be a part of our program call toll free 866-985-4255. That's 866-985-4ALL. We're live Sunday mornings from 7 to 9. That means we're on right now, and our website; ChristianQuestions.com.

[Rick] (1:00:13 - 1:00:56) Up to this point, David, we have discussed the idea of the fig tree being the physical nation of Israel and the blessing of that physical nation of Israel. We looked at the grapevine as being originally the spiritual blessing which was originally given to Israel, but redirected to Christianity through the basis of Israel, if you will. Now we want to develop even a little bit further and talk about some olive trees, okay, so we've got figs grapes and olives. To introduce that, you had talked about three different harvests of the fig tree. The first harvest, we established, was the winter harvest, which really did symbolize Israel at the time of Jesus. It was not a harvest that was worth anything. What's the second harvest?

[David] (1:00:56 - 1:01:23) That's correct. The next harvest is what's called the first ripe figs, and they come into being in late spring. Interestingly enough, these first ripe figs grow on the old wood of the previous year of the fig tree. The final harvest that we're going to talk about, the summer figs, grow on new wood. That's a particular point of the natural characteristics that fits in our spiritual application quite beautifully. RICK: What he's saying is it's way cool. JONATHAN: All right!

[Rick] (1:01:23 - 1:01:47) The idea then is the ripe figs in spring are a good harvest. DAVID: Yes. They're a delicacy and not a large harvest like the third crop, but a beautiful harvest, a very tasty harvest. RICK: So if the winter harvest showed Israel back in Jesus' time, what are you saying that this first good harvest represents?

[David] (1:01:47 - 1:02:14) Our expectation and understanding is that it represents different phases of God's dealing with Israel. The first ripe figs then would recognize the return of favor from God. Remember, we said that God hasn't cast them off forever; He set them aside. In fact, we might view the 1,845 years of the Gospel Age, the period of disfavor, as a time of punishment. You have to think things through, but we're going to come back to you because I promised Abraham that I would.

[Rick] (1:02:14 - 1:02:16) Scripturally, do you have a basis for that? You were talking to me during the break about a scripture in Hosea, was it?

[David] (1:02:16 - 1:03:18) Well, the Hosea scripture was with respect to the trouble that Israel is finding itself in today. It's Hosea 2:15. It says there that when the favor returns, it says I will give them the "valley of Achor for a door of hope..." Now "Achor" means "trouble." RICK: Okay. DAVID: This is God saying well, I'm going to turn My favorable attention to you but it's going to be with trouble. The word of the phrase "door of hope" is in the Hebrew, "Petah Tikvah." That is fascinating from the standpoint of modern history, because in 1878--which interestingly enough is 1845 years from 33 AD--in 1878, for the first time Israel was allowed to own land in the Promised Land again, in Palestine, and the very first establishment of a kibbutz or a settlement was called Petah Tikvah.

That was the name of it.

[Jonathan] (1:03:18 - 1:03:19) Rick, you're right. That is way cool.

[Rick] (1:03:21 - 1:03:59) It is way cool. There's something incredibly significant because that 1,845 years of disfavor being shown to begin to end in 1878 with Petah Tikvah--literally the same word from the scripture, literally it's the same word-- is in mirror of the 1,845 of previous favor. So when the scripture says "I will give you double," it's literally a folding over exactly what you had in favor, you will have in disfavor.

Now we see Israel being lifted out of disfavor, shown by dramatic but very small events in 1878. By the way, we can address those that object to this idea.

[David] (1:03:59 - 1:04:55) They say well, Israel doesn't accept Christ. You have to accept Christ to have God's blessing. Remember I said just a few moments ago that the first ripe figs grow in the old wood. RICK: Yes. DAVID: Summer figs grow in the new wood. RICK: Okay, folks! Listen to this!

This is big! DAVID: It's quite beautiful, because this is fruitage now under the remnants of the old Law Covenant, the old wood. The big crop that we will get to here in our final segment grows on the new wood. That's New Covenant fruitage. They (Israel) are being regathered in blindness. By the way, if you read Bible students and Bible scholars who wrote about this subject back in 18th and 19th centuries, all of them--

I don't know of any exceptions--understood that Israel would be gathered in blindness and then their blindness would be removed after they've been regathered. We're seeing that now.

[Rick] (1:04:55 - 1:06:00) In the midst of all their current trouble and trial and the world looking them at them so negatively, this is favor! Again, it's kind of protracted in some ways. You say, how is this God's favor? Because God's favor is like the sunrise--it grows and grows and grows almost imperceptibly over time, from God's standpoint. We've got to really move along here folks. If you have a thought, it's 866-985-4255 toll-free, 866-985-4ALL. We are live Sunday mornings from 7 to 9, and that means we're on right now. JONATHAN: Don't forget to tweet us at CQ Net Radio. RICK: Yeah, you know Twitter is a really cool thing. We've got thousands upon thousands of people that follow us on Twitter.

It's a great, great way to communicate so we'd love for you to do that. David, we're going to spend some time in Romans 11. I don't know if we're going to be able to read through the whole thing. This chapter, folks, if you have a different point of view, if you look at Israel and say well, you know what? Not God's favorite anymore. Not God's chosen.

We've replaced them. You've got to reason through Romans 11 because it is a graphic Illustration not of a vine, not of a fig tree, but of an olive tree; a third representation. Let's break this down into pieces. Let's start with Romans 11:13-15, Jonathan.

[Jonathan] (1:06:01 - 1:06:22) "Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I glorify my ministry in order to make my own people jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead!"

[Rick] (1:06:22 - 1:06:35) There're two things, David. First of all, their rejection is reconciliation for the world, and then it talks about their acceptance. You see a rejection disfavor and then favor being brought back, but how is their rejection reconciliation for the world?

[David] (1:06:35 - 1:07:25) Oh, this is so this is so marvelous and makes so much sense in the whole scheme of God's plan. When Jesus began his ministry, his teaching was a teaching he intended to go out to the whole world, to the Gentiles. RICK: Right. DAVID: God was calling from the whole world a people called out for His name that would be part of the body of Christ, and as part of the body of Christ they would be kings and rulers and priests for the whole world. This Gospel Age has been a time when individuals who have been gathered in that body of Christ will be complete at some time-- we trust in the near future--and then God's kingdom with these wonderfully developed and understanding and full-Christlike-character kings will now begin to bless the whole world. So the Gospel Age is really the time when the reconciliation of the world--at least the group that will reconcile the whole world--is put together.

[Rick] (1:07:25 - 1:07:30) So that's the vine in the branches. DAVID: Yes. RICK: Okay,

that's the spiritual part. Let's continue with Romans 11:16-18:

[Jonathan] (1:07:30 - 1:07:54) "If the part of the dough offered as first fruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; and if the root is holy, then the branches also are holy. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember that it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you."

[Rick] (1:07:54 - 1:07:59) What is this rich root of the olive tree and how is it shared?

[David] (1:08:00 - 1:08:41) We're talking about an all-encompassing covenant now that that brings everything together; the fig tree, the vines, all together. So it's a different picture. RICK: It's a picture now of the olive tree. DAVID: Yes, it's a it's a different picture and it's a full and final completed picture, the olive tree roots now being the root of the Abrahamic Covenant. Remember, we saw when we read the Abrahamic Covenant that it was intended to be a blessing for all nations, for everyone. The broken off branches

there is Israel. Back to the fig tree again, but now different. They (Israel) were not measuring up to what was expected, so they were broken off and the wild olives now are the Gentiles that were never part of The Abrahamic Covenant but now are being grafted into the Abrahamic Covenant.

[Rick] (1:08:41 - 1:09:29) Okay, so let's make sure we've got these pieces in order. We've got this olive tree, and what you're saying is this olive tree is representative of sort of the finished plan of the blessing of the world that God has set up. It comes through the Abrahamic promise--"In thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the Earth be blessed." I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heaven (the grapevine) and as the sands of the seashore (the fig tree). DAVID: Correct. RICK: The olive tree takes all of those pieces and puts them together and says because of this promise, here's how blessing works. In Israel, the fig tree was cut off for a while because they were disobedient and unfaithful, and now it's talking about others (Gentiles) being able to be grafted into this whole tree of blessing so they could have a part like you were describing. DAVID: Yes. RICK: Okay, let's continue.

[Jonathan] (1:09:29 - 1:10:09) Romans 11:19-23: "You will say, branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." RICK: Yay! JONATHAN: "That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps He will not spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: the severity towards those who have fallen, but God's kindness towards you, provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And even those of Israel, if they do not persist in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again."

[Rick] (1:10:09 - 1:10:41) Okay, so others were broken off to make room for the call of Christianity to the Gentiles. Had Israel not been unfaithful to the coming of Messiah, then we--you and I--would not have had this opportunity.

DAVID: That's correct. JONATHAN: It keeps us humble and thankful, doesn't it? RICK: Yeah, it does and it's kind of a weird thing. You want to go yay, but you say but awwww at the same time. JONATHAN: Yeah, yeah. RICK: David, what does this mean, talking about being grafted in, but you can't be proud either. You can't be all full of yourself.

[David] (1:10:41 - 1:11:08) It's the same character lesson that we talked about earlier. Faithfulness and obedience to God will result in blessing; unfaithfulness and disobedience will result in punishment. We saw that with Israel and Paul is using Israel as an example. You saw what happened to them because they were in unbelief. It can happen to you, too. Don't be proud. You have been specially called and you've been specially blessed, but don't be proud about it. Stand in awe of it and be faithful.

[Rick] (1:11:09 - 1:12:16) This also deals with another variance in Christian denominations; the concept of once in grace, always in grace is really being looked at here. JONATHAN: It's a challenge, isn't it? RICK: Yeah. it's saying just like Israel was cast off from favor, you can be too. Make sure that you deal with this. You nailed it before, Jonathan, when you said it's a humbling experience. DAVID: Yes. RICK: You deal with this with all humility in this call to heavenly things.

DAVID: Yes. RICK: Okay, let's continue a little bit more. Folks, we're in Romans 11:13-36. If you have a thought, it's 866-985-4255, toll free 866-985-4ALL. Live Sunday mornings from 7 to 9 and that means we're on right now. JONATHAN: Our website; ChristianQuestions.com. RICK: Don't forget to sign up for CQ Rewind, the full edition.

It's a free service exclusively available at ChristianQuestions.com. DAVID: We're going to have some neat things in CQ Rewind this week. RICK: Yeah, as a matter of fact, there's a great article about the current events happening in Gaza that we're going to put in the Bonus Material and Julie, you don't have that yet but you will, so don't worry. It's awesome. It helps to put things in perspective.

[Jonathan] (1:12:16 - 1:12:59) Romans 11:24-27: "For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree? So that you may not claim to be wiser than you are, brothers and sisters, I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, Out of Zion will come the Deliverer; he will banish ungodliness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins."

[Rick] (1:12:59 - 1:13:13) This, David, is really getting into the crux of the matter and how Israel-- natural Israel and spiritual Israel, Christianity--really both have a part in the same process here in the same plan.

[David] (1:13:13 - 1:13:20) Yeah, this is one of the key scriptures that gives us this idea of natural and spiritual Israel. When he says so all Israel will be saved, well, what's all? Well, it's the two parts here all coming together under God's plan.

[Rick] (1:13:20 - 1:13:47) They're coming together and it's saying if you wild branches can be grafted in--and incidentally, with olive trees you can actually do that. You can actually graft in, you can attach a branch from a wild olive tree into a cultivated olive tree and it can take and actually become part of that tree.

[David] (1:13:48 - 1:14:32) Yeah, and it will thrive it will give much more fruitage than in its wild position. RICK: Right. DAVID: I also wanted, on these last two sections that Jonathan just read, to emphasize two things again. One of the points we've been trying to make is that the casting off of Israel, the period of disfavor, is not forever, and Paul is very clear for this. Back in verse 23 it says, even those of Israel, if they do not persist in unbelief, will be grafted in again for God has the power to graft in. That's the return of favor. RICK: Right.

DAVID: And then in the last one here, verses 26, "Out of Zion will come the Deliverer; he will banish ungodliness from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins." Again, another very clear expression of God's favor returning to this former nation.

[Rick] (1:14:33 - 1:14:36) Okay, we're going to have to skip a couple of verses here just because our segment is just about up. Let's go down, Jonathan, to Romans 11: 33-36:

[Jonathan] (1:14:36 - 1:14:57) "O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and how inscrutable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor? Or who has given a gift to Him, to receive a gift in return? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen."

[Rick] (1:14:57 - 1:15:14) David, this last part of this verse really sums up that the olive tree root is that Abrahamic Covenant, that promise of God to bless all the nations of the earth. It really is coming through Israel and Christianity together. That's what this is saying.

[David] (1:15:14 - 1:15:20) That's right. That's a truth that will become more and more obvious as we get on to the end times here and into the Millennial Age.

[Rick] (1:15:20 - 1:15:30) We are in the process of seeing the trouble that gives birth to incredible blessing that comes through, again, Israel and Christianity.

[Jonathan] (1:15:30 - 1:16:28) This is Christian Questions. I'm Jonathan here with Rick with our special guest David Stein and our subject, "What Did Jesus Say About Israel?" Coming up, what part does Israel play in the future destiny of the world? A large role or a small role?

Will they be honored by God like in the past? That's next. You're listening to Christian Questions. To be a part of our program, call toll-free 866-985-4255, That's 866-985-42-ALL. We're live Sunday mornings from 7 to 9. That means we're on right now. Our website; ChristianQuestions.com.

[Rick] (1:16:28 - 1:16:40) As we go through this story, David, e have talked about three very significant scriptural symbols; the symbol of the fig tree, which is natural Israel; the symbol of the vineyard and the vine and the branches, which is spiritual Israel or Christianity at this point; and then the symbol of the olive tree, which is really both of those things put together as a final example of God's blessing.

[David] (1:16:40 - 1:16:58) Exactly, right. The neat thing about the olive tree, at least in terms of the symbology here, is that it has the root in the Abrahamic Covenant which is the all-encompassing covenant. It is the most important covenant in Scripture and ultimately brings all things together in Christ.

[Rick] (1:16:58 - 1:17:43) It says if you are Christ's, "then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:29)," and what you inherit with the promise is the ability to bless all the families of the earth. DAVID: That's right. RICK: So what part does Israel play in all of this? Let's take a look at this, and before we get into several scriptural prophecies, David, We talked through the program about the three different harvests of a fig tree. There was the winter harvest which you said was representative of Israel at the time of Jesus, not a good harvest. DAVID: Right. RICK: The spring harvest, which was a good harvest built upon the old wood, which is the returning of favor to Israel, which we saw really beginning in 1878.

[David] (1:17:43 - 1:19:33) Yeah, that's right. We might just fine-tune that a little bit. God always is interested in dealing with those of faith. He is not interested in those who do not have faith in Him, so when we talk about Israel and we talk about God's dealing with them, yes, Israel as a whole is under the covenant and God will be interested in them. But for the first ripe figs, these choice figs, we're talking about natural Israel, the descendants of Abraham from 1878 all the way up to the setting of the kingdom that are faithful, that love God's promises and will be used from them. Many of those, you read the history of Israel, you see faithful men that were moved in the the Zionist movement and whatnot that ultimately culminated in the gathering of Israel back in their homeland and the nation of Israel-- still in darkness, still in blindness--coming together. RICK: What about this third harvest? The summer figs?

DAVID: The third harvest is the summer figs, as you mentioned. It's the big harvest. This is what the farmer likes. This is where he gets his profit from. It's a very large harvest and produces a lot of figs. It grows on the new wood.

Our suggestion, in harmony with what we've seen before--and this is our suggestion; we're Bible students trying to understand what these symbols mean--the summer figs would appear to represent the fullness of God's blessing now upon the nation of Israel and after their blindness is removed. They now have accepted Messiah as their king. They know who Jesus is. They have an understanding of it. They understand the special position they have under the Law Covenant and God makes with them the New Covenant back in Jeremiah 31.

You've had other programs on that. "...I will make a new covenant" with you, not according to the old covenant. This is a replacement covenant, and this covenant now is going to bring life to them and to everyone that comes into that covenant relationship.

[Rick] (1:19:33 - 1:19:38) Alright, so how do we know that? Let's take a look at several prophecies. We're going to start with Isaiah 62:1-2:

[Jonathan] (1:19:38 - 1:20:01) "For Zion's sake I will not keep silent, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not keep quiet, until her righteousness goes forth like brightness, and her salvation like a torch that is burning. The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; and you will be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD will designate."

[Rick] (1:20:02 - 1:20:17) David, this is a beautiful picture. "The nations will see your righteousness" and talking about Zion and talking about Jerusalem. Now could this be focused just on Christianity, or how do you see this? Is this focused on Israel the physical nation as well, or both, or one exclusive of the other?

[David] (1:20:18 - 1:21:04) Well, it's hard to separate them out because of the that olive tree picture. Remember that during the Millennial Age--and this is a Millennial Age text prophecy here-- when God's favor has returned and the blessing of prosperity--remember in basket and store we talked about--will be seen by all the nations, they'll say wow! Look what's on going over there! They will begin to accept that and want to be part of it. But we mustn't leave out the fact that all these blessings now are coming through that heavenly seed. Jesus and the church will be united and in power in heaven. They are not on the earth as kings and rulers but in a spiritual position, but are still calling the shots and their rule will be a wonderful one. They will be prospering Israel and prospering those that come up in the resurrection at that time, too.

[Rick] (1:21:04 - 1:21:13) So it's through both of those conduits; through the spiritual Israel heavenly, through physical Israel earthly, comes blessing to everyone else.

[David] (1:21:13 - 1:21:42) Yeah, going back to the Abrahamic Covenant, your seed is like that's the stars of heaven--there's the spiritual--and the sands of the seashore and in you will all families of the earth--now the King James says "be blessed," but if you look into the Hebrew there (we have a friend who's a Hebrew scholar), he says that it's reflexive. I said, well, what's reflexive?

He says really it should be translated "bless themselves." So these kings of the earth will see things and they will be a given the ability and the desire to bless themselves by means of partaking of those blessings.

[Rick] (1:21:42 - 1:21:44) Okay. How does that all happen? It happens through the doorway of trouble, and that's our next scripture. Joel 2:20-22:

[Jonathan] (1:21:44 - 1:22:21) "But I will remove the northern army far from you, and I will drive it into a parched and desolate land, and its vanguard into the eastern sea, and its rear guard into the western sea. And its stench will arise and its foul smell will come up, for it has done great things. Do not fear, O land, rejoice and be glad, for the LORD has done great things. Do not fear, beasts of the field, for the pastures of the wilderness have turned green, for the tree has borne its fruit, the fig tree and the vine have yielded in full."

[Rick] (1:22:21 - 1:22:27) David, there're armies here. There's desolation There's a stench and then there's goodness. Put it all together.

[David] (1:22:27 - 1:23:22) The time of trouble that we are seeing in the world today, of course affects Israel There's trouble all through the world, but Israel particularly is afflicted. We know in current events what's going on right now between the Palestinians in Gaza and Israel. This is going to continue up to the time where God delivers Israel, and that's going to be a mighty battle in the future. Go into Christian questions, some of your archives. We've discussed this in detail. RICK: Psalm 83. DAVID: That's right, and Ezekiel 38 and all that. Well anyway, we want to get to the finality here because it says the fig tree and vine have yielded their full. RICK: Yeah, they're back together here. DAVID: That's right.

Once God has delivered Israel its fullness, now we've got the time of the full fig tree harvest, the summer harvest, and the full expanse of the heavenly government--heavenly Jerusalem, spiritual Israel--expanding their influence and their blessings to the whole earth starting in Jerusalem in Israel and then spreading through the whole earth.

[Rick] (1:23:22 - 1:23:55) It's interesting, now the fig tree and the vine are just singled out as working together. They have yielded their full. They They've come to full maturity and that's why the olive tree is the picture of the two of them having come to maturity and working together. All right, so let's go a little bit further. Israel, the source of the branch and of the physical and spiritual security-- I love this next scripture because it really does again bring in the the vine and the fig tree--and I think it's a powerful lesson. Zechariah 3:8-10:

[Jonathan] (1:23:55 - 1:24:26) Now listen, Joshua the high priest, you and your friends who are sitting in front of you-- indeed they are men who are a symbol, for behold, I am going to bring in My servant the branch. For behold, the stone that I have set before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave an inscription on it, declares the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, declares the LORD of hosts, every one of you will invite his neighbor to sit under his vine and under his fig tree."

[Rick] (1:24:26 - 1:24:39) Again the vine and the fig tree are there, and you have this stone with seven eyes. What's that all about it? What's the picture here? How is this showing us God's plan working through natural Israel and Christianity--true Christianity, spiritual Israel?

[David] (1:24:40 - 1:25:04) Remember that Joshua is another name of Jesus, so we have Jesus in charge here. The number seven is always associated with divine judgment, either negative judgment or positive judgment. Now all judgment is coming to an end and now the blessings are beginning to flow, and I love this--"every one of you will invite his neighbor." Well, who's your neighbor? Well, the whole human race is our neighbor, right?

[Rick] (1:25:04 - 1:25:10) So this is very much a physical picture here of the earth. This is not happening in heaven. It's happening here

[David] (1:25:10 - 1:25:33) Yeah, and this expression "under his vine and under his fig tree"-- we find in a couple other places in Scripture. In 1 Kings 4:25, it describes an ancient time under King Solomon where there was peace and prosperity, and it says they were under their vine and fig tree. That was a picture of the Millennium--Solomon's reign was a picture of the Millennium. Then in Micah 4:4 we have it again as a prophecy of what will come again.

[Rick] (1:25:33 - 1:25:48) "Under his vine and under his fig tree" is a symbol then, Old Testament-wise, of the earthly, physical prosperity. But we understand the symbols of the vine and the fig tree to be the two blessing parts that produce that.

[David] (1:25:48 - 1:26:07) Yeah, we're talking about government here RICK: Right. DAVID: Heavenly government and earthly government; and it will be a government that will not oppress the people, not exact taxes and all kinds of things that that give us all such a headache today, but rather a government that's really interested in everybody's peace and security and in fact eternal blessings.

[Rick] (1:26:07 - 1:26:19) So the destiny of Israel is a major, major part of world history to come. This next scripture really helps us to see that. Zechariah 8:20-23:

[Jonathan] (1:26:19 - 1:26:55) "Thus says the LORD of hosts; It will yet be that peoples will come, even the inhabitants of many cities. The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, let us go at once to entreat the favor of the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts; I will also g. So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD. Thus says the LORD of hosts, In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you." That's pretty dramatic, David. DAVID: What a change in attitude to today.

[Rick] (1:26:55 - 1:27:15) Yes. Yeah today with the current conflict in Gaza, people are just blaming Israel for defending themselves, and it's beyond me. Here in this scripture it's exactly the opposite. It looks like all nations are seeking out those of Jewish heritage, saying we'll go with you.

[David] (1:27:15 - 1:27:43) Yeah, the things that go on in the Millennial Kingdom will be quite different than today. God will be overruling everything. The peoples of the nations--ten is a number of all-encompassing, of earthly completeness. They will all see the blessing and prosperity of Israel, and they'll say, well we want to be part of that. Well, what do we have to do? Well, you have to you make some homage to Israel--that is, hold on to their skirt, in order to get this blessing. You can have it, but this is what you've got to do.

[Rick] (1:27:43 - 1:27:48) Interesting. One last Scripture before we close up; Isaiah 44:1-5:

[Jonathan] (1:27:48 - 1:28:25) But now listen, O Jacob, My servant, and Israel, whom I have chosen: Thus says the LORD who made you and formed you from the womb, who will help you, do not fear, O Jacob My servant; and you Jeshurun whom I have chosen. For I will pour out water on the thirsty land and streams on the dry ground; I will pour out My spirit on your offspring and My blessing on your descendants; And they will spring up among the grass like poplars by streams of water. This one will say, I am the LORD'S; And that one will call on the name of Jacob; and another will write on his hand, belonging to the LORD, and will name Israel's name with honor."

[David] (1:28:25 - 1:28:44) This is the summer figs, Rick. RICK: Okay. DAVID: All nations now coming into that fig tree and becoming part of Israel and having the blessings under the New Covenant--beautiful scriptures showing that they are taking those new covenant obligations on themselves, writing on their hand "I am the Lord's," and putting Israel's name upon themselves.

[Rick] (1:28:44 - 1:29:04) Literally labeling themselves to belong to God Almighty. DAVID: Yes. RICK: These are the nations of the earth that come through the conduit of the faithful, true Christianity and the conduit of the nation of Israel, the descendants of Abraham-- literally the descendants of Abraham.

[David] (1:29:04 - 1:29:22) It is the ultimate reconciliation. You're where the Apostle Paul in Ephesians says that he will bring all things together in Christ, reconciling all things under God. This is it. This is what the purpose of the Millennium is now, to take every man, woman and child that has ever lived, all of the descendants of Abraham and bring them into a relationship with God.

[Rick] (1:29:22 - 1:29:37) As we wrap this up then, David, the role of Israel in the world is one of the most significant roles we could even ever imagine-- now, today, and going forward from today on into eternity, is what you're saying.

[David] (1:29:37 - 1:29:58) That's right. We live in exciting times. What is coming up is still a lot more trouble for Israel--got to get over a very, very large mountain of trouble. But beyond that, when Israel's blindness is removed, the blessings will start to flow tremendously.

[Rick] (1:29:59 - 1:30:51) What you're saying, then--and this is a subject for another program, but big big big trouble before big big big big blessing. David, thanks so much for being with us today. It's really been fascinating to look at Israel and the fig tree and the vine and the olive tree. Folks, this is such an important aspect of our Christianity to understand the role that God has destined the physical nation of Israel to play along with the true followers of Christ in the blessing of all the world. Look at the promise given to Abraham. Look at how it's expanded throughout the scriptures and repeated over and over. God does not make a promise that He will not fulfill. It comes through Israel, the fig tree. It comes through the true Church, the vine and the branches, and it comes through the two of them working together in the olive tree to show us goodness forever. For Jonathan and Rick and David Stein and Christian Questions, Jesus said plenty about Israel! It's all good till next week. Think about it.

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